I had very lax parents myself. I can remember being spanked once in my entire life. I got grounded a few times once I reached high school and for good reasons, but other than that I didn't really receive discipline much from my parents. My husbands family on the other hand is in favor of spanking; at one point I though I was too but am now against it...but still have to stifle laughs when I hear a parent say, "use your words" to a kid throwing a tantrum; maybe because I am yet to see this work.
I am in Community Nursing this semester. The placement I am at has a brochure on why you should not spank. The brochure was very informative on why you should not spank but it lacked any information on alternative ways to correct behavior/discipline. I chose not to had this out because I felt the information was not complete. Not being a parent yet myself, I did not feel equip to give alternatives if asked once the brochure was read and the client found that no alternatives were included.
Specializes in Retired OR nurse/Tissue bank technician.
I got spanked as a child but it was for major things. ANd i never did those major things again. Talking back, lying, all the things that your not supposed to do when you have respect for someone.
My parents had a 'three strikes and you're out' rule. I was warned the first time, warned and punished non-physically the second and spanked the third. I only got to the third time and a spanking twice. I never repeated either offence.
The only other spanking I got was for throwing something in my dad's face; I was scooped up and smacked five or six times on my backside. Never did that again, either.
I can think of a couple other offences I *should* have been spanked good and hard for-they were not minor issues and I repeated them way too many times.
Specializes in Retired OR nurse/Tissue bank technician.
I swear by 1-2-3 Magic by Dr. Thomas Phelan.
My experiences with watching 1-2-3-Magic parents has not been positive overall. Almost every single parent I know who uses 1-2-3 Magic has either turned into a "1....honey, please stop....2...honey, please, I'm going to say three soon...honey, come on, I'll buy you a toy if you behave....." pansy or else does the above, then grabs the child in frustration, gives it a shake and yells in its face or spanks it.
My question: why should a parent essentially have to ask a child to obey three times? The one-two-three just gives the child extra time to repeat the negative behaviour or play when they should be getting ready to go or ignoring when they should be listening.
Specializes in Retired OR nurse/Tissue bank technician.
While I am not saying any posters here would do this, I think there are those who think that corporal punishment is wrong, in any form. I however, think that like anything corporal punishment has extremes, same as the non-physical punishments.
I'm with you; any punishment (or lack thereof) can be used appropriately or inappropriately. Spanking, if it is used, should not be the first line of punishment and it should not be done when angry or with things like belts.
Children can also be damaged by insufficient discipline-my friend, a teacher, sees that on a daily basis. The kids either expect they will never hear 'no' and will always be told how wonderful, skilled, amazing, beautiful, perfect they are or else are shocked when they don't get three or four or ten chances to behave, like they've been taught at home.
They've also been taught that since they are the absolute centre of the universe and are wonderful, near-perfect little creatures, respect for the teacher is optional at best. After all, whatever they want is usually handed to them on a gold platter at home. *sighs*
Obviously this is not every single kid in his class, but enough of them to make me think his bald spot is not heredity at work.
My experiences with watching 1-2-3-Magic parents has not been positive overall. Almost every single parent I know who uses 1-2-3 Magic has either turned into a "1....honey, please stop....2...honey, please, I'm going to say three soon...honey, come on, I'll buy you a toy if you behave....." pansy or else does the above, then grabs the child in frustration, gives it a shake and yells in its face or spanks it.
My question: why should a parent essentially have to ask a child to obey three times? The one-two-three just gives the child extra time to repeat the negative behaviour or play when they should be getting ready to go or ignoring when they should be listening.
That's NOT what we do here in this house. I don't cowtow to my kids ever. If a person does what the book recommends, which is definitely not what you said, those situations would not be happening.
Read the book so you can see that those parents are doing it completely wrong. The 1-2-3 allows the child to know that something is amiss that they are doing and noted and will be punished. (Other people mentioned the same technique but with different words.) I bypass the whole counting if it's a bad enough offense. Many times kids need to be removed from the situation they are in to chill a bit.
I don't EVER give my children what they want when they are misbehaving. That would be a bit of silly reinforcement, wouldn't it? Again, I encourage you to listen to the book or read it and then decide on it rather than your anectodes. Certainly people can say they are doing a program or following a book and really suck at it.
We're no pansies. Remember, I married an old fart who has raised two sons successfully to adulthood. He's been around the block on this whole thing, and after his initial apprehension (you know, the counting is silly thing), he really came around. It's working very well for us, the girls know what to expect when they are doing something wrong, and it removes the tendency to lose our patience and/or temper with them, which escalates the situation even more when a child is misbehaving.
One thing is for sure, there are times that spanking is needed, and responded to.
There are times that it is not necessary and just ignored.
I learned that for very young kids, when they do misbehave, to take them out of the situation right away. I have a 4 year old and it seems to work. Ignoring them is another way, ie) keeps asking for something and you already said no, or if they ask for something and they do not say please.
I started "time out" at age 1. It sounds cruel, but until now, it works for him and he understands that it means that he did something that is not acceptable.
When they get older, I think that taking things away that matters the most to them is the best way to go.
It is also important that as parents, that we talk to them like adults. I also believe that a parent should not be a child's buddy. But at the same time, not a stranger either. There should be a balance between being your child's friend and authority.
I like the " do not give in" that is huge..... I am not a spanker... I have 3 kids, 19, 17, and 14 hit 19 one time in 19 years, never hit 17 and probably hit 14 on the bottom 2 times in 14.... mostly when I was frustrated. seems to me that spanking is a knee jerk reaction when we can not control our behavior, too difficult a task to follow through with dicipline. Read a book once called how to dicipline with love, Adele faber and Elaine Maslish, it is available on line through 1/2 price... it is an easy read that offers plenty of solutions. Diverting attention to something else in young years... it always helps to make the punishment fit the crime, try to connect on some level so that it sticks. and complement on positive behavior and speech.... that sometimes is a better teacher, they will work for the praise.. remember, kids that act out sometimes are just trying to get attention and maybe they just need some positive attention to stop the negative attention. And many kids just need extra because of their nature of stronger wills... good luck and good job
LOL about 1-2-3 anything..... brought up 2 funny things about my kids... Kid #1 a now 19 year old female, still strong willed and opinionated once told me,, maybe at age 2 or so..... I instructed her to do something like pick up toys and put on her shelf.... she looked at me and said : Count mommy, 1 2 3 " ticked me off and made me laugh as I realized that was not working. Kid #2 at 3 years old so probably Kid #1 was now age 5 ( I must have been a slow learner) so kid 2, I told him something, counted to three and at the count of two he went running off wildly to do the task, I laughed inside, when he came back I asked him.... hey KJ, what happens when I hit #3 when I count.... he replied " I Ooono " that was his I dont know.. we still laugh with our 2 oldest kids about those responses... #1 will sometimes smirk when we request something, and then she will say count mommy.. the nice thing is, they do grow up:yeah:
We also did not hit and we used a time out type of discipline with all 3 of my kids. We must have done something right because all 3 are now in their 20's and have good educations and solid jobs. We started the "time out" when they were toddlers and never had problems with them staying where we put them. It was never in their room - that would have been too interesting. One minute per year of age is what we used too. Also we didn't have a permanent time out area. That would have made it hard to discipline when we weren't at home.
We don't hit animals so why would we hit something as precious as a child?
I guess I am from a different school, but I have seen firsthand what a lack of discipline will do to kids.
My two grandsons have destroyed laptops, blackberries, walls, floors, etc.....all under the watchful eyes of my son and DIL.
And, just a few days ago, my granddaughter suffered a broken collarbone at the hands of my six-year-old grandson, when he pushed her off a bed so hard that she hit the wall..literally breaking it in two.
Of course my DIL defended him: "He was just playing around".
He should consider himself fortunate that I wasn't there, for I would have kicked his butt from one end of that house to the other.
Last Christmas my son disciplined my (then) two-year-old grandson by placing a new toy cell phone my sister had just given him on the top shelf of their entertainment amorire after he was repeatedly warned to stop throwing it. He pitched a fit, and began climbing up it (I'm not kidding). I was horrified, for he could have pulled it down on top of himself and been instantly killed in the process. I snatched him down and busted his butt. It was the first time I had ever spanked any of my grandkids. What does my DIL do?: She retrieves the toy and gives it to him!
An argument ensued between my son and DIL. I just went into my bedroom and closed the door. He knocked on the door a few minutes later, came inside and closed it behind him. "She does this all the time, Mom", he told me, exasperated.
I just looked at him and responded matter-of-factly: "Well, I'll tell you what: I won't be attending my grandkids' funerals."
He didn't say anything.
Hopefully my granddaughter's broken collarbone will be a wakeup call for both of them.
Each child is unique as to what will get his/her attention. Time out may work for one where as a reading assignment where kids are just taught, "Children obey your parents...." with a set of spoken or written questions, to answer at the end, may stick in the brain of a child who can read. Writing, "I will not....." a bunch of times may work to reinforce the rule itself, in the mind of still others. Parents know their own children and with trial and error will discover what works. Try several methods. Just like you have to do when studying for test. You know what works for you. Just remember to make the punishment fit the crime. Be careful not to give them a felony punishment for a misdeamor crime, or vise versa.
Keeping a journal of outcome (sound familiar?) may even help the parent remember what worked and what did not. No matter what diciplinary method you choose as an alternative to spanking, there is only one way it will be effective. Love and consistancy. Stick with your own rule, promise or threat. If you do not, you will reinforce to them that they can escape consequences to bad behavior; the next time it will be worth the gamble, (that they might just get by with it) and they probably will gamble on that. If they get by with it one time out of two, their subconscious mind says 50:50 chance that this behavior will have no consequences. And on it goes.
Explaination of your reason for the rule and the discplinary measures will keep reinforcing to the child what the rules are and that irresponsible or bad behaviour does have negative consequences. If they do not learn this now, they will learn it later. Most likely behind bars or with otherwise broken health and lives. I learned all this the hard way. And then finally with my last two out of 4 children, I learned what works. Love and consistancy. Don't forget to pray for your kids lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots. It works!
we also did not hit and we used a time out type of discipline with all 3 of my kids. we must have done something right because all 3 are now in their 20's and have good educations and solid jobs. we started the "time out" when they were toddlers and never had problems with them staying where we put them. it was never in their room - that would have been too interesting. one minute per year of age is what we used too. also we didn't have a permanent time out area. that would have made it hard to discipline when we weren't at home.
we don't hit animals so why would we hit something as precious as a child?
this took a long time to write....please read it in it's entirety.....i welcome any comments...thanks!
ctpctstudent.... my parents rarely used the rod, forget time out......my mom used to use a shoe when she got angry and one time i locked my bedroom door to avoid the spanking and my mom got my baseball bat and proceeded to beat my door in (my mom is 5' ) needless to say i opened the door when i realized my mom was going to beat the door in and figured the shoe was better than a bat (i had to live with that broken in door as a reminder till i moved out of the house). i remember getting a spanking at school in second grade (remember those old paddles as big as your bottom and an inch or more thick?) as i look back it seems that the "no spanking" craze must have kicked in not long after because by 5th grade i was banned from recess for most of a year for breaking into a classroom.....i would have gladly taken a spanking over that....i won't go further into all the gory details of my life but i know personally that i needed a whole lot more spankings than i received....i had to learn through the "school of hard knocks" and i am just starting to make some headway at 40.
for me personally it took meeting the lord jesus christ :redbeathe and him becoming my savior to make a real difference in my life....let me tell you that god can take a rod and chasten his children .....and it is done in love and is meant to deliver us from destruction.....as with any form of correction it is partly up to the person administering the correction and how they administer it and partially up to the person receiving correction how they respond to it....some are tender hearted and will respond with perhaps even a look or word of correction.....others are stubborn and hard hatred and may take more drastic measures. some may never be corrected and many of those will likely lead a life in and out of prison and the potential for a shortened time on this earth.
my pastor has some good sound bites i'll share from memory...i think they are pretty accurate....these are a paraphrase and i think he does it better...
#1 god gives us little babies who are weak at birth because if they were able they would take a gun and blow your head off because they don't get what they want when they want it. (unfortunately it seems we have many teen agers and adults who never seem to have moved out of infancy:devil:)
#2 you can correct your children when they are young or you can let the military, criminal justice system, or the working world do it for you later in life, it's up to you, you're going to do it your way anyway... my pastor can be quite sarcastic...unfortunately his is right. you know for me it took all three of those things to really knock me into some form of productiveness with a whole lot of messes along the way. personally i'd add broken marriages and relationships to the above list....i had those too
"we don't hit animals so why would we hit something as precious as a child"
first of all, there are some that do "hit" animals and they also "hit" their children......normally because they are angry and do not have the character or capacity to deal with a stressful event in a more constructive manner.
god did not instruct us to "hit" our children to relive our anger or fear....but rather god instructed us to chasten our children with the "rod of correction" a spanking....to deliver our children from the destruction of sinful behavior, rebellion, hard-heartedness, and self-will (characteristics which will make it difficult for an individual to come into a meaningful relationship with god through jesus christ our great savior). if our children could do it alone.....why would they need parents? god gave parent's the responsibility to raise their children to know god and act appropriately. some parents do not know god personally themselves; therefore they do the best they can.....some obviously do better then others...
as evidenced by some postings.....hitting or destructive/demeaning conversation can damage the soul....cause hatred, anger, pain, hard-heartedness, and bitterness which can last a lifetime....and also make it difficult for one to come to know god in a meaningful way.....to come to realize that god is truly loving and wants noting but the best for us; after all god did send his son to this earth to die to pay for our sins....to make a way for us to be reconciled to god....could there be any greater love? but be absolutely sure, you can go your own way and you will face the consequences of your actions...i personally am very thankful that jesus was willing to forgive me and give me new life! in my life there was a lot to forgive....and still is day by day.
spanking is not always the answer....i have learned personally that my father in heaven does not take out the rod first thing whenever i have not done right.....and if a look or a word will do.....great! if a time out will do...great! if a grounding of some type will work....great! but if the child does not respond to these (forget the one, two, three junk as you are just conditioning them to get away with what they can...push things to the limit, straddle the fence and hopefully not fall off...), it would be quite foolish to not follow through with what god has instructed us to do. it is also important to be consistent in our behavior, rules, and their application.....kids do not react well to instability as their minds just are not developed to understand that we can change our mind at a whim (not always a good thing mind you ) contrary to popular belief, we will not warp our children by setting up boundaries and sticking to them, most children will appreciate you for them; furthermore you will not warp your child with a spanking.... make sure you teach your child right and wrong....what to do. a mistake i think some do make with spanking is they spank their children without first teaching them......spanking should be reserved for disobedience.....not ignorance and innocence. i will concede that there might be times when things are just so dangerous that a spanking is needed to get their attention in a hurry and imbed in their mind some measure of fear for certain things like a child running into the street, electrical socket, etc... teaching first is always ideal.....but we are not living in an ideal world are we do you always listen and learn?
for the government to step in and attempt to take away our god-given responsibility to chasten our children with the rod at times....is certainly an overstep of their bounds...in my opinion; however there is no doubt that some take it way too far and a spanking becomes a beating and abuse.....let's give parent's the benefit of the doubt on a red and bruised bottom (use your assessment skills...are the parents honest about it?)....but clearly marks all over the body certainly should raise some concern in our minds...and intervention may be necessary for the safety of the child. there wouldn't be a need for dcfs if people administered correction properly and in control....and didn't neglect their children. god even makes provision for beating....see below.....we're just a bunch of softies today with extremely thin skins...and since we as nurses are mandatory child-abuse reporters we do have a responsibility to pick up on and report what we suspect to be abuse. a spanking on the bottom is not abuse! are we wiser and more righteous than god almighty? i think not!
i am going to provide some bible references on this subject of spanking.....after all god did make us and he did set things up to work a certain way....god gave us clear instructions...if you do it your way (or the world's way) things may "seem" to turn out ok....most times not...and you still have to answer to god in the end...
food for thought.....it may go ok for you, but how about your grandchildren or great, great, great grandchildren? see the last "eye opening" bible verse...
2 timothy 3:16 all scripture [is] given by inspiration of god, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
proverbs 17:25 a foolish son [is] a grief to his father, and bitterness to her that bare him.
proverbs 29:15 the rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame.
proverbs 22:15 foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
proverbs 15:10 correction [is] grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: [and] he that hateth reproof shall die.
proverbs 13:24 he that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
proverbs 23:13-14 withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
proverbs 19:18 chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.
hebrews 12:11 now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
ephesians 6:1-4 children, obey your parents in the lord: for this is right. honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; ) that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. and, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the lord.
colossians 3:20-21 children, obey [your] parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the lord. fathers, provoke not your children [to anger], lest they be discouraged.
exodus 20:5-6 ...for i the lord thy god [am] a jealous god, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
have a great day....and great question.....i believe the brochure is wrong for absolute condemnation of spanking, and very short-sighted if they did not provide alternatives. i think there are many good ideas posted in this thread....but i would not suggest eliminating spanking from parents' toolbox as one of them.
you know..mom had 6 kids and we were all spanked..sometimes with a belt..that was in the 1970's..all of us grew up ,drug free..problem free..maybe not trauma free,but we survied..now,all of the 9 grandchildren have grown up in the 2000's spank free but with time out and reasoning with them.. some who are in their 2-3 yr range throw major tantrums (something we would never have even dared of trying). it really depends on the child's needs, the parent's qualities..i don't know, i have chosen not to have kids but i did find some good articles for my sister,when you google..tantrums.. www.kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/behavior/tantrums.htmlwww.heptune.com/tantrum.htmlwww.children.webmd.com/tc/temper-tantrumswww.mayoclinic.com/health/tantrum most of the suggestions say to give options (kind of distracting them from what they are fitting about) which also gives them a feeling of control.
) needless to say i opened the door when i realized my mom was going to beat the door in and figured the shoe was better than a bat (i had to live with that broken in door as a reminder till i moved out of the house). i remember getting a spanking at school in second grade (remember those old paddles as big as your bottom and an inch or more thick?) as i look back it seems that the "no spanking" craze must have kicked in not long after because by 5th grade i was banned from recess for most of a year for breaking into a classroom.....i would have gladly taken a spanking over that....i won't go further into all the gory details of my life but i know personally that i needed a whole lot more spankings than i received....i had to learn through the "school of hard knocks" and i am just starting to make some headway at 40.
.....and it is done in love and is meant to deliver us from destruction.....as with any form of correction it is partly up to the person administering the correction and how they administer it and partially up to the person receiving correction how they respond to it....some are tender hearted and will respond with perhaps even a look or word of correction.....others are stubborn and hard hatred and may take more drastic measures. some may never be corrected and many of those will likely lead a life in and out of prison and the potential for a shortened time on this earth.
) contrary to popular belief, we will not warp our children by setting up boundaries and sticking to them, most children will appreciate you for them; furthermore you will not warp your child with a spanking.... make sure you teach your child right and wrong....what to do. a mistake i think some do make with spanking is they spank their children without first teaching them......spanking should be reserved for disobedience.....not ignorance and innocence. i will concede that there might be times when things are just so dangerous that a spanking is needed to get their attention in a hurry and imbed in their mind some measure of fear for certain things like a child running into the street, electrical socket, etc... teaching first is always ideal.....but we are not living in an ideal world are we 
do you always listen and learn?
RetiredTooSoon
167 Posts
My parents had a 'three strikes and you're out' rule. I was warned the first time, warned and punished non-physically the second and spanked the third. I only got to the third time and a spanking twice. I never repeated either offence.
The only other spanking I got was for throwing something in my dad's face; I was scooped up and smacked five or six times on my backside. Never did that again, either.
I can think of a couple other offences I *should* have been spanked good and hard for-they were not minor issues and I repeated them way too many times.