Allowing Corpsman to Become Nurses

Corpsman Mom · Nov 14, 2012

I am an RN with my BSN and MSN. It took me a long time to get there. I took the hard way becoming an LPN first then AAS RN, BSN and MSN.My son is a Corpsman FMF. He is able to run circles around any LPN (which have great technical abilities) and RN. I know I have been following his curriculum with my mouth open. Does he have the BS classes like Nursing History, chem, etc - NO. I proposed and have a Petition for "Corpsman to RN". Many people have signed from all across this country. I delivered the petition to a local politician. He was bringing it to Washington but not until I went over exactly what I proposed. A program by the government specifically geared to the Corpsman. They would know exactly what skills they have and what is needed to make them eligible for the board. It can be on an accelerated basis as these men and women are used to it. Let's face it we do not want to lose these capable young men and women to frustration dealing with an educational system that is seriously lagging. If you have a BS degree in anything you can go into an accelerated program for RN. These young men & women have mucho medical education that our government has paid for. Let's help them as we all know there is a nurse shortage and they do not have the advantage of leisurely waiting to be accepted.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Nov 14, 2012

I mean no disrespect but there is no nursing shortage right now. The last count in California is that 47% of the nursing graduates cannot find positions. The average time it takes a new graduate to find a position is approximately 18 months and it is not always acute care. The shortage will return by some estimates around 2020 when us baby boomers will have either died on the job or illness has forced us out of the work force. The poor economy has prevented many nurses from being able to retire.They are no leisurely acceptance to nursing school anymore......it has become highly exclusive and competitive. Browse some of our student and pre-student forums and first year after graduation/employment/career sections. It's eye opening.

I believe that If a corpsman can pass the boards then they should be a nurse. There should be a corpsman to RN course like excelsior does for some paramedics.

MyelinSheath, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2013

This tread popped up when I was searching how to challenge the Minnesota Board of Nursing to take my PN examination. I need to write a paper for my fourth and final semester of nursing school. I need to write to one of my state senators asking them to support, defend, amend, etc... a current state or federal bill that is related to nursing. I am going to ask him or her to propose a new bill asking for the Minnesota Board of Nursing to grant PN examination for military medics in the State of Minnesota. My wording is still immature and I need to read up on how to write this in the political format that is correct.

Furthermore, I don't want to be a "corpsman" which is why I didn't become one. Should I ever decide to then I would expect to start at the bottom by going through basic training just like everybody else. Or should I say, "I have advanced degrees and "real world" experience so I shouldn't have to run laps!"

Although this thread is long dead, I found this comment to be hilarious. If you hold an advance degree bachelors or higher, you do skip basic and can become a commissioned officer. In addition, I feel that maybe education is the key here and one thing I have learned from nursing school is teach and educate the ignorant.

I am truly amazed me by some of the ignorance shown by some people in this thread (I have used this forum throughout my nursing education and thank the forums dearly for that). This is only my second post I think it two years but needless to say I had to speak up on this.

I am an Air National Guard Medic or 4N071 or Air Force Medic…we are trained the same for both. My training lasted from Oct 20 2007 to June 1 2008 or roughly eight months. I got to go home in between basic and advance training. I received 4 months of academic in 6 blocks at Sheppard AFB. We were required to pass everything with an 80% or higher (the exact same as my current nursing school!). After failing twice the delinquent would be washed back to the very beginning. If one could not pass the NREMT which was during block 4, the delinquent would be washed back. The NREMT was and is still one of the hardest exams I have yet taken; the highest in our class was a 78 from someone who was previously a firefighter. The NREMT at the time was 70% for passing. Two wash backs would result in being retrained or kicked out of the Air Force. Our classes started at 0600 AM and went to 1600…this included marching with 600 other Individuals at the butt crack of dawn in the winter and sometimes being yelled at like we were in basic training again. We had group PT every day after class, detail cleaning, and other group participation activities. We had no cars; our rooms were inspected every day, blah blah etc... you get the picture. Do I think we medics should be able to take the PN examination? Absolutely! Why? Because of the crap we had to go through? No, because of the training, transcript, and clinical hours we received. See below.

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This is my official transcript from the Community college of the Air Force which is accredited. Here is the link of the accreditation.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/ccaf/academics/accreditation.asp

In addition, I received first class clinical experience (this does not show up on the transcript) that far surpasses my two years in nursing school. During my military clinicals, we didn’t have to complete bogus assignments which the instructors stressed more than actually taking care of patients. We actually took care of patients, saved lives and our rotations were in the ER, ICU, ENDO, hyperbaric medicine, trauma, med/surg, peds, etc. After two months of 9 hour/ M-F, clincials we then moved into phase 3 and I worked in the ICU for two months (640 clinical hours), some could be in phase 3 for up to 4 months. I was managing central lines, arterial lines, IV’s, fluids, neuro checks, reading EKG’s, etc.

Another comment was that “if you wanted to be corpsmen then be a corpsmen but I choose nursing instead”…this is rubbish and nothing more. The medics in my unit are awesome, two are in med school, three went on to PA school (two have graduated), and three of us are in nursing school right now. The issue with the State Nursing Boards is a lack of knowledge on the subject and comments here reflect that ignorant thinking. When I graduate this May with my ADN, I plan to pursue state legislation that will actually pass and give us medics the right to write the PN boards. I have been on both sides now and have experienced training and education with both pro and cons on the military side and civilian side.

I also wanted to mention that Navy corpsmen (especially the ones with the Marines), army, army flight medics, air force flight medics are trained to a level that far exceeds that of an RN. This includes suturing, chest tube insertion, intubation, needle decompression, but I don’t have my army medic manual with that I reference as an Air Force Medic because of how in-depth it is.

netglow, ASN, RN · Feb 9, 2013

I don't see:

Biology, Microbiology, Chemistry, Organic chemistry, Anatomy, Physiology, etc. to name just a few of the prerequisite courses that nurses must have just to enter a nursing program - or - did you just forget to include those?

By the way, have you not read the countless threads of LPN/LVNs being let go from their jobs? These are in school for their RNs.

Remember there is no shortage of people who have all the education in nursing. Actually there is a glut of new nurses with ALL the requirements met, and then some.

"Skills", Setting up a makeshift shelter certainly is a skill, but building a hi-rise is something that the makeshift shelter builder will not be chosen to do. You need to put in the time to understand why you are doing all the skills you did. Skills are something ANYBODY can learn.

netglow, ASN, RN · Feb 9, 2013

And, I believe that you chose something that you thought would let you get some sort of a ticket to ride. That was not too smart.

You must always remember this is a world where corporations run healthcare. Your civilian boss will make the rules on what requirements they have for a specific job opening.

MyelinSheath, BSN, RN · Feb 9, 2013

And, I believe that you chose something that you thought would let you get some sort of a ticket to ride. That was not too smart..

Negative, I joined after 9/11 to be perfectly honest. Whether BS or not in reference to 9/11, the country needed medics and that is what I wanted to do.

There are currently three states that allow medics to challenge the state nursing boards...it should be every state and I will make Minnesota the fourth.

To imply that I am "not too smart" is pure ignorance on your part. I graduate in 3 months and yes being a medic has been a ticket to ride, it has allowed me to excel in my class and I will graduate with honors. I will be finishing top of my class and yes I will be getting a job when I am done with school at the hospital where I work as a CNA. The hospital where I work prefers internal applicants and I have worked there for 6 years as a CNA. I have connections there and I am all but guaranteed a job when I graduate. I never needed a "ticket to ride" for a job or for school.

Had I been a CNA my whole life wiping bottoms and turning patients, would that have been my ticket to ride that you feel would be worthy enough for you? My friends that are becoming doctors there were medics, PA's and other nurses feel their medic training has been a nice stepping stone or "ticket to ride." Again though, you have not experienced it and would not know.

I tried to educate the other-side on this debate on our training but instead you look at something minute like not seeing A&P on my military transcripts. It was taught in the classroom as we learned the other subject matter when we were learning how to critical think. I am going to ask a few of my fellow students on Monday's class some stoichiometry problems and see if they remember. Please, I could ask current RN's A&P questions now as they struggle with their ABG's... nursing school has been a challenge but it is not medical school.

What is your age? I would like to know what generation I am dealing with here.

PMFB-RN, RN · Feb 10, 2013

I don't see:
Biology, Microbiology, Chemistry, Organic chemistry, Anatomy, Physiology, etc. to name just a few of the prerequisite courses that nurses must have just to enter a nursing program - or - did you just forget to include those?.

*** None of those classes are (or should be) prerequisite for LPN in my state (Wisconsin). Only A&P & micro are even required. Chem and organic chem arn't even required for the RN program.

tyloo · Feb 10, 2013

And, I believe that you chose something that you thought would let you get some sort of a ticket to ride. That was not too smart.
You must always remember this is a world where corporations run healthcare. Your civilian boss will make the rules on what requirements they have for a specific job opening.

MyelinSheath. Congrats on finishing your ADN. I enlisted in the ANG at the age of 17. I went through the medic program and when I went home I started my four year BSN program. I also worked as a CNA in nursing school. I guess once I graduated school and I cashed in on my big fat ticket to ride--- woohooo!! The red carpet was pulled out for me at my first medical-surgical job. :smokin: Definitely it was not smart to have that military experience. Bloody heck it takes up too much space on the resume! I also was not smart to join the military because I regret all the GI bill assistance I had through nursing school and the same GI bill assistance I had in completing my MSN now. I also had a scholarship for community service at the private college I attended too for my BSN. I wish I could take that back too! I also purchased my house recently using a VA loan. I know medics I have worked with too that are now doctors and nurses! I guess we were all so stupid to get that medic training and to be in the service. What a waste of time!

Be proud of your accomplishment! Congratulations!

PMFB-RN, RN · Feb 10, 2013

This tread popped up when I was searching how to challenge the Minnesota Board of Nursing to take my PN examination. I need to write a paper for my fourth and final semester of nursing school. I need to write to one of my state senators asking them to support, defend, amend, etc... a current state or federal bill that is related to nursing. I am going to ask him or her to propose a new bill asking for the Minnesota Board of Nursing to grant PN examination for military medics in the State of Minnesota. My wording is still immature and I need to read up on how to write this in the political format that is correct.

I know you are doing an assingment and that's fine. However I feel it's hopeless. I am an army medic who challenged the LVN board in California and currently work as an RN in Minnesota. MN is a very old fashioned nursing state. New ideas are not well accepted in MN. I have worked in 5 states as an RN, Ca, Wi, Az, Mn, Or. AZ is by far the most old fashioned states for nurses thinking followed by MN. MN is a terrable state for vets. For example across the river in WI military medics get advaned standing in the RN programs. Here in MN they are lucky to get 3 credits of health credit for graduation from basic training.

I support the idea but think you are going to just be banging your head aginst the wall.

MyelinSheath, BSN, RN · Feb 10, 2013

I absolutely agree! Minnesota is defiantly old fashioned nursing. However, I feel that it is ignorance on the MN Nursing Boards part. Like what was shown here on this thread is a lack of knowledge on our training. I guarantee there is not one member of the MN nursing board that has served or was a medic. I had planned to propose a bill or some sort of proposition to my congressman in regards to challenging the boards for PN long before but this assignment will make it easier because I plan to follow up and continue with it until I retire as a nurse. I believe we need to present materials from all the training from Sheppard, Fort Sam Houston, CDC’s (career development courses in the Air Force), and letters from the US surgeon general, and anything else that would support this case.

Furthermore, I believe that individual nurse practice acts for each state should not exist. Nurse practice acts should be standardized at a national level. There is no reason for a nurse to be able to do one thing in one state and not in another state. Unless I am wrong please explain why this exists? Is this just so the states can make money? Why not train all nurses to the same high level of training? Licensure should be federalized with input from all state nursing boards that could create a national practice act to a level supported by all the states. We talk about continuity of care in school and in the hospital; wouldn’t this be the ultimate continuity of care?

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Feb 10, 2013

I remember the President's remark very specifically. The tone of the statement was what caught my attention. Mr. Obama put a strong emphasis on the work nurse; as in, "he could not [even] get a job as a [mere] NURSE! We have to change that!" Words in brackets are my additions to convey the tone of the President's comment. I believe that is what Mr. Obama was trying to convey. If you prefer, read the statement without the inserted words. What do you think? I must say, it rankled this old nurse.

Well, anyone can become the mere President. Actors, governors, Senators, CIA Directors, Generals, failed businessmen, etc.

PMFB-RN, RN · Feb 11, 2013

I absolutely agree! Minnesota is defiantly old fashioned nursing. However, I feel that it is ignorance on the MN Nursing Boards part. Like what was shown here on this thread is a lack of knowledge on our training. I guarantee there is not one member of the MN nursing board that has served or was a medic. I had planned to propose a bill or some sort of proposition to my congressman in regards to challenging the boards for PN long before but this assignment will make it easier because I plan to follow up and continue with it until I retire as a nurse.

*** Well good luck. For the life of me I never understand why veterans come to Minnesota to go to college when other states are so much more vet friendly.

Furthermore, I believe that individual nurse practice acts for each state should not exist. Nurse practice acts should be standardized at a national level. There is no reason for a nurse to be able to do one thing in one state and not in another state.

*** Well we will have to agree to disagree. Seems appropiate to me that a nurse practicing independantly in rural Alaska migh have a different scope of practice than a nurse working in a teaching hospital in NY City. My problem with the one size fits all is whos NP act will you follow? If it's one of the bette rones then fine. But what if it is modeled on the worst state practice acts, like Alabama's for example.