Allowing Corpsman to Become Nurses

[Asystole RN]

Watching the Presidential debate tonight and a statement by Obama made my head turn. He was relating a story when a corpsman was stating that he has treated wounded soldiers but when he became a civilian he could not use his training or experience to count towards becoming a nurse (unknown which kind). The corpsman was upset that he had to start his education/training from the beginning.

Obama stated that the requirements to be a nurse (assumed licensure/NCLEX requirements) should be changed to allow corpsman to become nurses (did not state which kind).

Any thoughts?

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

What is your problem with giving people the opportunity to CLEP or challenge exams for life experience? LPN’s CLEP part of the RN basics everyday, in the LPN to RN courses. Simply because you may lack that experience, is no reason others shouldn't be able to cash in on their own. You could just as easily gained the very same experience has you opted to join the military, but you didn't and now you speak ill of those who might shave a month or two off of the education schedule by challenging a couple of classes against life/military experience and you act like someone is giving them something you didn't get and it is an unfair advantage. What a load of bullshlt. If there was a CLEP for bellyaching and whining, I’m certain you'd be right up there in line.

[Ntheboat2]

Looks like the one whining here is you, right along with the paramedics I mentioned earlier. "I can do everything you can do, and do it better, but you get paid more. Wah." Talk about entitled.

Nursing is not my first rodeo. In my first career, I never thought that just because I knew more than many of the people I worked with that I should get paid the same or get to skip requirements. I knew that if I wanted to get paid X amount then I had to follow the guidelines just like everybody else. Welcome to the real world.

If people could just "test out" then surely you think that everyone should have that opportunity. Some people are very intelligent and do well at tests regardless of experience. So, in theory, we could have a nurse on the floor who just "tested out" of all his/her classes.

I didn't "speak ill" of anyone. Just because I don't agree that people should be handed a degree because they were in the service and that offends you does not mean that I speak ill of them.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Looks like the one whining here is you, right along with the paramedics I mentioned earlier. "I can do everything you can do, and do it better, but you get paid more. Wah." Talk about entitled.

*** That is a gross misrepresentation of his point. I too have heard the paramedic complaining ayou have and that is NOT what is being said here.

If people could just "test out" then surely you think that everyone should have that opportunity.

*** Uh what are you talking about? Anyone CAN test out. You could have tested out of many of your classes had you chosen to.

Some people are very intelligent and do well at tests regardless of experience. So, in theory, we could have a nurse on the floor who just "tested out" of all his/her classes.

*** Ya like me. I became an RN with exactly 32 EARNED college credits to my name. I challenged the LPN NCLEX based on my experience as a medic in the army. I then CLEP'ed most of the other college classes required for the ADN. The only classes I took were the last two semesters of nursing classes and microbiology. To this day I have yet to ever take an A&P college class, however I would put my knowlage of A&P up against any RNs. My A&P education was superb but wasn't taken at a college. I pased the A&P challeneg exam with a 96% and I had no idea when I woke up that morning I would be taking an A&P exam that day.

I didn't "speak ill" of anyone. Just because I don't agree that people should be handed a degree because they were in the service and that offends you does not mean that I speak ill of them.

*** Uh, you have either NOT read the comments or are unable to understand them. FMF corpsman, myself , and others are NOT calling for military corpmen to be handed degrees. We recognize their training does NOT prepare them to be RNs. What we are calling for is recognition of what training and experience they do have and give them credit for it. I could care less how the nurse taking care of my child came to know what they were doing, so long a they do know what they are doing. This is already being done. I did it. The problem is it is far from universal and the veteran must state hope to recieve the recognition they deserve.

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

Looks like the one whining here is you, right along with the paramedics I mentioned earlier. "I can do everything you can do, and do it better, but you get paid more. Wah." Talk about entitled.

Do you even read anyone else's post or do you have some sort of comprehension difficulty? I clearly explained in my post that I returned to school on my discharge from the military and after many years and a lot of hard work, I ended up with my Masters. Can you say you've done anything remotely similar? Hardly anything for me to whine about, I worked my butt off to achieve that, and I doubt very seriously that you were paid anywhere near what I was, considering my experience and my education. AND, no sense of entitlement either, I earned everything I got. Back when I first returned from the military, CLEP was a new thing and the only things acceptable were the basics. The bulk of my courses were completed the hard way. No one handed me anything, with the exception of at my graduation. No one is expecting anyone to hand these new Warriors anything either, except a fair shake. They have commensurate experience to allow them to challenge certain parts of certain exams and they should be allowed to do so, just as anyone else would be able to. If you don't agree, then simply disagree and be quite about it. If you should at some point choose to further your education, perhaps you might like to join the military and see if you could cut it as a Corpsman or even get accepted as a FMF Corpsman or as a Medic and then maybe you too could challenge the exams if you survived your enlistment.

[Ntheboat2]

"If you don’t agree, then simply disagree and be quite about it." (It's quiet, not quite.)

You obviously can't deal with any opinion other than, "The military risks their lives for us! Of course we should allow (fill in the blank with ANYTHING!)"

"If you should at some point choose to further your education, perhaps you might like to join the military and see if you could cut it as a Corpsman or even get accepted as a FMF Corpsman or as a Medic and then maybe you too could challenge the exams if you survived your enlistment."

You have no idea what the extent of my education is. However, why would anyone need to further their education to join the military? I got my high school diploma long ago, thank you very much. Furthermore, I don't want to be a "corpsman" which is why I didn't become one. Should I ever decide to then I would expect to start at the bottom by going through basic training just like everybody else. Or should I say, "I have advanced degrees and "real world" experience so I shouldn't have to run laps!"

[FMF Corpsman, MSN, RN]

"If you don’t agree, then simply disagree and be quite about it." (It's quiet, not quite.)

You obviously can't deal with any opinion other than, "The military risks their lives for us! Of course we should allow (fill in the blank with ANYTHING!)"

"If you should at some point choose to further your education, perhaps you might like to join the military and see if you could cut it as a Corpsman or even get accepted as a FMF Corpsman or as a Medic and then maybe you too could challenge the exams if you survived your enlistment."

You have no idea what the extent of my education is. However, why would anyone need to further their education to join the military? I got my high school diploma long ago, thank you very much. Furthermore, I don't want to be a "corpsman" which is why I didn't become one. Should I ever decide to then I would expect to start at the bottom by going through basic training just like everybody else. Or should I say, "I have advanced degrees and "real world" experience so I shouldn't have to run laps!"

I'm going to say to you now, that I have a degree or two myself and I choose not to waste any further time dealing with you. I am going to put you on ignore, and I would appreciate it, if you were to do the same for me.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

You obviously can't deal with any opinion other than, "The military risks their lives for us! Of course we should allow (fill in the blank with ANYTHING!)"

*** Once again you chose to ignor what has been said. NOBODY is saying that veteran should be allowed "ANYTHING".

You have no idea what the extent of my education is. However, why would anyone need to further their education to join the military? I got my high school diploma long ago, thank you very much. Furthermore, I don't want to be a "corpsman" which is why I didn't become one. Should I ever decide to then I would expect to start at the bottom by going through basic training just like everybody else.

*** Oh the irony! You wouldn't go though basic like everyone else. I assume you are a nurse, in which case you would be given credit for the knowlage and experience you already have. More likely you would go through officers training and would NOT start at the bottom and go through basic training like everyone else. To do so would be wastful and needlessly expensive. The military would give you credit for for education and you would enter at an advanced rank, not an E-1 like the average high school grad without education and experience. In face your real world experience is highly likely to get you advanced officer rank and quite possibly you would start above the lowest offcier rank.

Or should I say, "I have advanced degrees and "real world" experience so I shouldn't have to run laps!"

*** YES! Exactly! Of course you should say you have advanced degrees and real world experience so that the military could recognize that and NOT make you start at the bottom. That is exactly what would happen. They would not make you start at the most junior rank. It would be very wasteful to not recognize your degrees and training.

[midinphx, BSN]

Can this fight just end now?

Everyone is needed and important in the job they do from the unit secretary, the military tech, the LPN, the RN, the doctor. The center being on the patient - which we ALL strive to help.

Our injured military make it home by the work of their buddies and buddy care. Then medics and the transport crews, the administrative support who arrange those crews. The care gets passed along. Every single bit of care matters regardless of the credentials of the one giving it.

True that military nurses don't go through basic training like an E-1. I did. I enlisted at 18 and served my piddly little 3 years as planned. I used my GI Bill and college fund and became an RN. An I came back in after 14years as an RN at the age of 42. Because I always dreamed of caring for our heroes. I'm not the only prior enlisted RN - there are many of us. I'm proud that I was an E-1 and know what it is. But I'm not going to discount the nurse next to me for not going through "real" basic training.

Everyone has a story. All roles are valuable. The fact remains that medics aren't nurses - despite the amazing care they give and the lives they save/impact. But the path is there if they want to become one, they just have to work for it. I did.

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

Nurses are licensed at the state level, not the federal level. I don't see how Obama could make it easier for corpsmen and medics to become nurses. Maybe it could be a project for the VA.

My state has an EMT shortage. Medics and Corpsmen can challenge the EMT exam up to Paramedic level, but they can't challenge the NCLEX. If an EMT wanted to become an RN, they would have to go through an RN program. I don't doubt that medics and corpsmen have great skills in their respective fields, but they aren't nurses, just like EMTs aren't nurses.

[Ntheboat2]

You obviously can't deal with any opinion other than, "The military risks their lives for us! Of course we should allow (fill in the blank with ANYTHING!)"

*** Once again you chose to ignor what has been said. NOBODY is saying that veteran should be allowed "ANYTHING".

You have no idea what the extent of my education is. However, why would anyone need to further their education to join the military? I got my high school diploma long ago, thank you very much. Furthermore, I don't want to be a "corpsman" which is why I didn't become one. Should I ever decide to then I would expect to start at the bottom by going through basic training just like everybody else.

*** Oh the irony! You wouldn't go though basic like everyone else. I assume you are a nurse, in which case you would be given credit for the knowlage and experience you already have. More likely you would go through officers training and would NOT start at the bottom and go through basic training like everyone else. To do so would be wastful and needlessly expensive. The military would give you credit for for education and you would enter at an advanced rank, not an E-1 like the average high school grad without education and experience. In face your real world experience is highly likely to get you advanced officer rank and quite possibly you would start above the lowest offcier rank.

Or should I say, "I have advanced degrees and "real world" experience so I shouldn't have to run laps!"

*** YES! Exactly! Of course you should say you have advanced degrees and real world experience so that the military could recognize that and NOT make you start at the bottom. That is exactly what would happen. They would not make you start at the most junior rank. It would be very wasteful to not recognize your degrees and training.

There's no real irony. Obviously, I wasn't aware that I'd get to skip point A. There's a big difference in being allowed to skip point A and being entitled to skip point A. The point is moot though.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

There's no real irony. Obviously, I wasn't aware that I'd get to skip point A.

*** Maybe you didn't know but you should have exceted that would be true. It is a waste of time and money to teach people things they already know well. Very few people, other than you, seem to think it's a great idea to wast time and money (your tax money since vets will likely be in college on the GI Bill) to teach people things they already know. Much more efficient to allow them to deomstrate their competency and then move on to teaching those things their education and experience thus far haven't provided. My nursing school required college algebra. However anyone who could prove they were already competent in college level algebra but passing an exam was allowed to skip the 3 credit math class. To most people it would seem obvious that this should be so. Obviously, as this discussion has demonstrated, not everybody agrees.

Why corpsmen shouldn't also be allowed to demonstrate competency on the things they know and then be allowed to move on to those things lacking in their training on their path to becoming an RN I don't understand. You haven thus far expressed any reason why this should not be so, except that you don't like it.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Nurses are licensed at the state level, not the federal level. I don't see how Obama could make it easier for corpsmen and medics to become nurses.

*** There is plenty he could do. The federal government can exert great influence on colleges and universities.

My state has an EMT shortage. Medics and Corpsmen can challenge the EMT exam up to Paramedic level, but they can't challenge the NCLEX.

*** Nor should they be allowed to. Nobody is saying they should be allowed to.

If an EMT wanted to become an RN, they would have to go through an RN program. I don't doubt that medics and corpsmen have great skills in their respective fields, but they aren't nurses, just like EMTs aren't nurses.

*** They certainly are not nurses. However they have considerable skills, experience, and education that they should get credit for. The complaint of the young veteran who spoke to Obama wasn't that he could not become an RN based on his corpsman training, it was that there was no recognition at all in the education path on the way to becomeing an RN that he already possessed skills and education at some level. It happened that he was from Minnesota, a state whose education system it notorious for ignoring a veterans education and experience. Had he crosse the river into Wisconsin he would have found a very different set of circumstances.