Affirmative action for single mothers?

Published

Like most places, the competition to get into nursing programs is huge where I live. I met a woman in one of my classes who told me she has been accepted at the community college, and the U of --. Problem is, the wait list here for the CC is up to 3 years. She told me how she got into the U of --. She said to me, you have to have something special about yourself. I asked her, what do you mean? So she said "I got in because I'm a single mother." So I said to her, "I bet you have a really good GPA. I know the average GPA for those accepted is 3.7. Maybe you are underestimating how much you impressed the interviewers." She looks at me and rolls her eyes and says "My GPA isn't near that. They let me in because I'm a single mother." How do you know that I asked. She says "the professors both told me that I was being admitted expressly because I'm a single mother which makes life harder for me."

Excuse me? I have to admit this pisses me off! I used both the pill and a condom when I was out there to be careful...and she gets in because she's a single, never married mother? I can see if she got in on her own merits, then they chose to give her a full waiver on tuition to compensate for the difficulty of being a single mother. That sounds reasonable to me. But to admit her because of this?! Oh, and she's now pregnant again with #3. She's 22 years old. Never married. I am not trying to make judgments on those who have never been married and are single mothers. I just don't think you should get admitted to a nursing program because of it! Am I in left field here? What do you all think.

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

Basically what I learned from the psych professor the other night (out at dinner with friends) is that college admissions are not fair. She used the example of us at dinner. She said we are all caucasian, NPR-listening, Birkenstock-wearing Unitarians here at dinner. (It was me, my friend and her friend the psych prof). She said that if we all applied and we all had 4.0s and interviewed perfectly we wouldn't all be admitted because we are all alike and the program needs all kinds. She said note this is not fair to the individuals. But it is what is done so the group is diverse.

So in the end, if a professor decides we need a single mother with a low GPA who can handle a high course load because we don't have any single mothers...oh well. I find it a real stretch on the diversity issue and I find it unfair to turn away another student who is responsible and has a higher GPA. But I don't have the Ph.D

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I don't think I'd give that answer if I were in the same state as the school. And I might word it differently. I was just thinking off the top of my head.

Gotcha. I've learned over the years what a small world nursing can be, so I am a bit paranoid sometimes. I'm from Canada and worked mainly in Vancouver and Toronto as well as Washington state. When I interviewed in southern California I was shocked that my interviewer was from a suburb of Toronto and had worked at the hospital across the street from mine. :chuckle (our unit holds a pretty low opinion of hers, but of course I didn't mention that!) When I inquired about an MSN program at a university in the north east, the advisor I spoke to went to nursing school in Vancouver and worked in the same hospital as I did. We recently had a traveller at work who went to the same nursing school as I did, but graduated one year ahead of me. Her regular job is at a hospital in Edmonton that my aunt worked at for years. Who would have guessed I would meet her in southern California? It's a small world.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Basically what I learned from the psych professor the other night (out at dinner with friends) is that college admissions are not fair. She used the example of us at dinner. She said we are all caucasian, NPR-listening, Birkenstock-wearing Unitarians here at dinner. (It was me, my friend and her friend the psych prof). She said that if we all applied and we all had 4.0s and interviewed perfectly we wouldn't all be admitted because we are all alike and the program needs all kinds. She said note this is not fair to the individuals. But it is what is done so the group is diverse.

So in the end, if a professor decides we need a single mother with a low GPA who can handle a high course load because we don't have any single mothers...oh well. I find it a real stretch on the diversity issue and I find it unfair to turn away another student who is responsible and has a higher GPA. But I don't have the Ph.D

Maybe... I guess I just have a different view. Sometimes instructors get to go with their gut instinct on who will make the best nurse. That isn't all about GPA. I think a class does benefit from having people with varied life experiences as well. My nursing class had men, women, minorities, single mothers, dog owners, cat owners, 2 champion skiers, former businesspeople, 1 former cop, a former flight attendant, a former chef, several people with previous bachelor's degrees, some straight from high school and God knows what else, aged 18 to 50+.:chuckle Your class may be as diverse and it may not. Whatever it turns out to be, I hope you enjoy all your classmates rather than judge who should be there and who shouldn't. You'll just be setting yourself up for unnecessary stress. Trust me, I've been there. We had a cocaine user admitted into our class...

You may be surprised at who turns out to be great nurses and who doesn't. A girl I went to high school with started the nursing program at the same time as me. She had a great GPA, and is exceptionally intelligent. She quit after the first semestre. She just didn't like it and wasn't doing well in the non-science classes. She had done very well in the prereqs because she liked science and wound up getting her degree in that instead. Last I heard she was doing some marine research project in Tanzania or something.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
Maybe... I guess I just have a different view. Sometimes instructors get to go with their gut instinct on who will make the best nurse. That isn't all about GPA. I think a class does benefit from having people with varied life experiences as well. My nursing class had men, women, minorities, single mothers, dog owners, cat owners, 2 champion skiers, former businesspeople, 1 former cop, a former flight attendant, a former chef, several people with previous bachelor's degrees, some straight from high school and God knows what else, aged 18 to 50+.:chuckle Your class may be as diverse and it may not. Whatever it turns out to be, I hope you enjoy all your classmates rather than judge who should be there and who shouldn't. You'll just be setting yourself up for unnecessary stress. Trust me, I've been there. We had a cocaine user admitted into our class...

You may be surprised at who turns out to be great nurses and who doesn't. A girl I went to high school with started the nursing program at the same time as me. She had a great GPA, and is exceptionally intelligent. She quit after the first semestre. She just didn't like it and wasn't doing well in the non-science classes. She had done very well in the prereqs because she liked science and wound up getting her degree in that instead. Last I heard she was doing some marine research project in Tanzania or something.

I agree that professors have the right to go by their instinct regarding who will make a good nurse. We all know someone with a 4.0 who cannot live in the real world for anything. How someone interviews is extremely important. I just don't agree with giving her a better chance to be admitted or using single motherhood as a diversity issue. In the end, I think my emotional response is normal. When you work hard, are responsible, maintain a 3.8 and then see a young woman with a lower GPA and little common sense, be admitted because she's a single mother (to a large extent) it is just a slap in the face. Literally. It wouldn't be an issue if I didn't study for hours and hours every single day and know that I'll have to move to another state probably to see her skate in because she's 'special'. It's because there are so few nursing spots that we are even talking about this.

Even I'm tired of this now. Fact is, it's not fair. But I'm tired of thinking about it.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Of course it's normal to be upset about it. I don't mean to say it isn't. I am just telling you from my personal experience, the more you focus on other people the more stress you will have in your life. Trust me, there will be many, MANY, MANY more times you will think your instructors are completely wrong.

If you keep doing everything right like you have been, you'll not have any problem with nursing school I'm sure.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

The fact that I have a 6 page thread on this reveals two things:

1) My intense fear of not getting into a nursing program that I want

2) My vertigo with adjusting to academia from the business world. I'm used to a professional atmosphere. Instead, now my thoughts on campus today went like this..."Why can't they put some clothes on. I don't want to see every young woman's belly button. Why do these students have to unload the f-bomb every other word in the hallways. Why is my instructor always 10 minutes late (the nerve!). Regarding another class, late in the day. The instructor called off sick. Note on the door with instructions for readingt and exam coming up for each class, beginning with with the first class at 8 am. It was late afternoon for my class. Why not mass email all students? It's easy to do. Would have saved me hours. Literally. I'm just not used to this stuff.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I feel for you. I really don't miss a lot of things about university!!!

(I still get really mad when the day shift nurse comes in 10 minutes late;) so some things never change)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
She got in because she was able to sell herself. It's a good skill to have and will serve her well if she graduates and starts interviewing for jobs. The faculty was obviously impressed by her and I see no reason for that to offend anyone else.

ding ding ding! If there is an interview process, she obviously impressed the heck out of the panel. I can see her listing all of her accomplishments, her determination to succeed, and showing proof of that by completing the most difficult prereqs all together and being a single young mom of 3 little ones. There is a lot for her to work with on that story alone, not to mention that her GPA may have been quite good even if not 3.7. I am certainly not saying that it would be fair if she got in "just" because she is a single mom, but i also don't think they looked at a bunch of applications and came to hers and saw "single mom" and just stamped it approved. At our school there are single moms or displaced homemakers who can get their entire schooling and child care paid for through the school. I can't qualify for that and sometimes get frustrated when I hear these students complaining about things they are getting for free that are costing me hundreds and into the thousands of dollars now. Only natural to feel a bit irritated sometimes about things, but it really sounds like this girl is simply one who excels at the interview process. I could be wrong though.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
The fact that I have a 6 page thread on this reveals two things:

1) My intense fear of not getting into a nursing program that I want

2) My vertigo with adjusting to academia from the business world. I'm used to a professional atmosphere. Instead, now my thoughts on campus today went like this..."Why can't they put some clothes on. I don't want to see every young woman's belly button. Why do these students have to unload the f-bomb every other word in the hallways. Why is my instructor always 10 minutes late (the nerve!). Regarding another class, late in the day. The instructor called off sick. Note on the door with instructions for readingt and exam coming up for each class, beginning with with the first class at 8 am. It was late afternoon for my class. Why not mass email all students? It's easy to do. Would have saved me hours. Literally. I'm just not used to this stuff.

:yeahthat: I FREAKING HATE THAT!!!!!!! Like our time isn't important too!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
The fact that I have a 6 page thread on this reveals two things:

1) My intense fear of not getting into a nursing program that I want

2) My vertigo with adjusting to academia from the business world. I'm used to a professional atmosphere. Instead, now my thoughts on campus today went like this..."Why can't they put some clothes on. I don't want to see every young woman's belly button. Why do these students have to unload the f-bomb every other word in the hallways. Why is my instructor always 10 minutes late (the nerve!). Regarding another class, late in the day. The instructor called off sick. Note on the door with instructions for readingt and exam coming up for each class, beginning with with the first class at 8 am. It was late afternoon for my class. Why not mass email all students? It's easy to do. Would have saved me hours. Literally. I'm just not used to this stuff.

You will get there. In October i was convinced that no nursing school would take me and my 3.86 gpa. My school had just changed their points system and while i had full points under the old system i was missing a few under the new one. I had basically geared my time and schedule around a certain point system and plowed through only to come to the end of most of my prereqs, for the system to change. I was lucky enough to at least be aware of the change, there were those who were not informed even after going in for an advising meeting. :angryfire. School is strange sometimes. I got my acceptance letter from the school i wanted and the semester i wanted and i am so relieved and happy now, but i distinctly remember that feeling of complete stress and anger over not being in control. (gotta work on that). I too like GPA based acceptance because of the element of control, but there are problems with this system as well, as students at my school frequently find out when students get straight A's at a school down the road (far FAR easier curriculum) and get in at our school over students who get a B or 2 due to a more rigorous education. It's always something...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in LTC/Peds/ICU/PACU/CDI.
moe, i happen to support aa. i have had the aa arguments before, and i believe in aa. i do not want this thread to devolve into a debate about true aa. my irritation with her is a secondary issue. the primary issue, and issue of this thread is her getting admitted instead of other students because she is a single mother. her bizarre statements to the wheelchair student happened the next day in class, while i was stewing about her telling me how she got in. i was stunned that someone with so little insight got into such a competitive program.

in retrospect i wish i hadn't titled this thread aa. *please don't let this degenerate into an argument about actual aa*

hiya muticollinarity...sorry it took me soooo long in getting back to this thread...real life 'n all.

i'm glad to see that you didn't mean to label this thread around aa & that you were in fact annoyed with this particular individual's merits in getting recruited. for a moment there....i wasn't sure & had to get clairification....thx you.

but i'm not so sure this person got in under aa as much as a program for single mothers under a certain financial burden? there are many programs out there for single mothers (& single fathers for that matter) which will give them the added need to put themselves into a better position. we (society) don't want people on the rolls anymore than the next person...we don't necessarily know how one get into the position one finds themselves in until it happens & to judge them regarding this isn't necessarily the answer. there are scholarships out there geared for all sorts of people from single parents to being kids of police/firefighthers/nurses/doctors...etc. there are academic scholarships as well as sport scholarships out there for various reasons. i just don't want you to label this person as being an aa recipient when you don't really know for sure is all. and even if she did get in under aa...this individual will have to muster up enough smarts in order to graduate. there are no *special* classes for aa enrollment regardless of what some people say/think. i just want you to think about why you're pissed with this person & not lump her in a generalization of others.

cheers,

moe

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatrics.
:angryfire :angryfire :angryfire

First, let me qualify everything that follows by stating:

1. I have 2 children from my first husband that have no idea who he is or this child support people speak of.

2. My lovely ex-husband drifted in & out of our lives for a few years, while I supported him, his mother, myself and our children.

3. I am now with my soul mate and a SAHM to his, hers, and ours - 5 kids.

4. He works everday and takes care of all of us financially. I am blessed.

I will say this very clearly because I want the entire world to understand what I'm saying, TAKING CARE OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES IS NOT AN ACCOMPLISHMENT, IT IS EXPECTED. I'm not sure how everyone else got pregnant, but I'm pretty sure I know how I did and it was my choice. I created these responsibilities and I have to care for them. I abhor the thought of people using their children as proof of their ability to "accomplish" something. Taking care of your children and providing them with everything they need is your duty. This is not a job that provides pats on the back or atta-girls.

The people that call it a "hardship" drive me crazy. Yes, I went without dinner so that my kids didn't, yes, I still have some of the clothes I wore in the 90's because I'd rather buy things for my kids, yes, I make sacrifices. THAT IS THE CHOICE I MADE when I made those kids.

A true hardship is something that make life difficult to get through by the normal channels. Living life in a world designed for walkers in a hardship for those confined to a wheelchair.

When I receive my acceptance to the nursing program in March (:smiley_aa )

I will know that I was accepted into the program because of my true accomplishments, not because I chose to have children.

If I seem a little harsh, I'm sorry. I just get so enraged....... Like multi said, my sob story is impressive too, but I don't need a crutch to limp through life.

I truly do not mean to offend anyone. I'm really quite nice once you get to know me!

:D

mo bello

:yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yeahthat: :yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion