Topic of the Day: GO AWAY FOREIGN NURSES! - page 10

This is exactly how I feel each time I log into the International Forum. I don't feel welcome as a foreign born nurse. I don't feel respected as a minority in this country. All I feel is the hatred... Read More

  1. by   NurseCubanitaRN2b
    Quote from Stanley-RN2B
    To be fair. I'm pretty sure we've seen poor American nurses too. At least I have.
    I have to agree with that statement...There are poorly educated American Nurses and I've worked with them...and some with experience and I still question their ability and prefer not to be paired with them....
  2. by   5cats
    Quote from nickola
    I have only worked w/one foreign nurse. He was educated & worked all of his 18+ yr career in another country. After he passed the US boards he worked here in ER. His prior experience was listed as "ICU" - apparently ICU in his country and ICU in the USA are vastly different- & he struggled w/simple basic concepts that our new grads have no problems with. From what he told us, one does not want to be a patient on a med-surg floor in his country- the ONLY way to get "good" care is to be in the "ICU" - which amounts to lower acuity patients than what our med-surg floors are- only by his own descriptions much much worse & w/horrible staffing. We gave him many chances to improve and learn how we do things HERE- classes, prolonged orientations, etc. Finally after a year and a half he couldn't cut it & was terminated- this was due to his skill level, lack of ability in prioritizing, poor organizational skills, & knowledge base-- skills that any nurse w/as many yrs experience as he has should have mastered. I hear that he is now working another specialty unit (not ER) at another hospital. His nursing skills were questionable, I've known CNAs w/better skills than this person- he was nervous & unsure of himself w/the most routine patients & procedures. He would panic easily and forget to assess the PATIENT not the monitors. I don't understand how admin. checks references on nurses whose only experience & education is in another country- my guess is they didn't check his! There should be some kind of closer monitoring of nurses educated in another country b/f they are "turned loose" IMO. The nursing shortage is not that critical in the area I work/live in to justify hiring a nurse w/poor skills- in fact several seasoned nurses (who only wanted part-time hours) were passed over for a position when they hired this guy- THAT is just not fair- to fellow nurses OR the patients.
    It sounds that this guy is a bad/unqualified nurse, I doubt that it has sth to do with him being a foreigner, especially since he was offered prolonged orientation.
    And there is normally is close monitoring, and normally you have to do quite an assessment that starts prior to interview, during interview and after. Depends of course on the employer.

    5cats
  3. by   5cats
    Quote from LatinaVNStudentRN2B
    Do you think that it could be possible that he didn't have the technology skill that most nurses here do have? Maybe he was nervous around all the high tech equipment that his country didn't have...I've done my rotation in the ER and although I didn't experience or see everything, it's pretty basic until you get into the stat situations...I find it hard to believe that a nurse with 18 years experience (I'm not doubting what you're saying) can't take a blood sugar, insert a foley cath, suction a patient, administer medications & O2, take vital signs, insert NG tubes etc...those are pretty basic..how can one not know how to do that? As a student I got to do all of those things in the ER during my rotation and the one that I felt the most uncomfortable with was the insertion of the NG tube...but with my experienced Clinical Instructor and the RN there it made it easier for me...But I'm just the student, the RN with 18 years experience should have mastered (as you stated) this already.....

    I agree with your statement regarding monitoring a foreign grad nurse....What they do in their country might not be what is done in the US...I honestly believe that they should have not only a few years experience under their belt, but they should be required to take a transition course that would transition them to nursing here. They should have their skills assessed before taking the NCLEX to make sure that their skill level is that of what's expected and practiced here in the US...I know that they have English exams that they must pass...I'd really have to see that exam but I can almost guess that those English exams aren't at the college level....and it shows because foreign grads that I've come across have passed those exams and have poor English skills...As a graduate of the California State University System, we had to pass several college English exams before we were able to graduate with our prospective degrees, and that last college English focused on our major...It's pretty intense and it was a very hard course and I don't even know how I passed sometimes...But foreign grads should be made to pass classes equivalent to that of the CSU (for California, can differ in other states) English courses...You have to be able to know how to read and write at the college level because communication is a very important factor in nursing...not just skill....
    The english exams actually are all at university level, it just depends on wich passing level/degree is accepted. In Canada for instance your speaking passing score for TOEFL ibt is 28 points out of 29 max. Elsewhere they accept 26 or so. With IELTS passing scores start allready at 6.5 max would be 9, so that would be significantly lower.

    5cats
    5cats
  4. by   nickola
    Since he came from a 3rd world country it's hard to say what requirements were in place for him. There was a slight language barrier, but it was his skill level- probably stemming from his basic nursing background/education- that was his problem.
  5. by   NotReady4PrimeTime
    Quote from LatinaVNStudentRN2B
    I agree with your statement regarding monitoring a foreign grad nurse....What they do in their country might not be what is done in the US...I honestly believe that they should have not only a few years experience under their belt, but they should be required to take a transition course that would transition them to nursing here. They should have their skills assessed before taking the NCLEX to make sure that their skill level is that of what's expected and practiced here in the US...
    This is what is being done currently in Alberta. Of course, CARNA is being roundly criticized for being too tough and making it too difficult for IENs to be licensed here. It seems less important that the mandate of CARNA is to ensure safe, ethical nursing care is provided to the people living here and more important that they license all applicants with the least amount of fuss.

    Quote from LatinaVNStudentRN2B
    I have to agree with that statement...There are poorly educated American Nurses and I've worked with them...and some with experience and I still question their ability and prefer not to be paired with them....
    Amen to that. I've had coworkers I wouldn't allow to look after my plants, never mind myself, a loved one or my patients. Sadly our management is content to ignore the complaints about poor care provided because we're so short staffed all the time that anyBODY is better than noBODY. You've got a pulse and can hold a pen, go to it.
  6. by   ghillbert
    Quote from LatinaVNStudentRN2B
    What are people expecting? When it comes to immigration, everyone is going to have their opinion...Some people don't embrace immigrants with open arms and some people do....
    The point is, if people come to the international forum looking for information about licensure, or immigration, or venting because they are frustrated that there are no visas... why do you care? Why would you feel the need to comment and go on about how you don't want them in the US and you're glad of retrogression? Yes, there's free speech, blah blah - but what's the POINT? What do you get out of it?

    Someone once gave me good advice about posting online. Ask three questions before posting: Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
  7. by   mauiboy
    here they go again....good thing these posters doesn't run the government.they're not happy spewing out their unsolicited advices, now they want to change the way foreign nurses are recruited just to stop them from coming.
    yeah,the thread title is really appropriate... GO AWAY FOREIGN NURSES !!!!
  8. by   Ginger's Mom
    Working with a nurse who is unsafe is a nightmare. It harms the patient and burns out the other nurses having to complete 2 assignments while administration thinks that there are 2 fully qualified nurse . In the past before retrogression some IENs were placed in positions without the correct assessment or orientation. This was not the fault of the IEN but the administration who hired them without looking at the entire picture. It was in the era where administration viewed a nurse is a nurse and could function 100% in any area. Some of these issues have changed. Joint Commission requires that every nurse have a competency based assessment. Employers can't bring in IENs at a lower wage. Many nursing unions are in place to protect the current nurse's job security and nursing patient ratios.

    What I find distressing is that many foreign nursing students have not been told the full picture from their nurse leaders. From what I have read they are expecting immediate positions in the USA or Canada and that their education makes them fully qualified to practice with minimal supervision in the hospital setting. Nurses educated in the US have to complete a newly licensed nurse program in most hospitals and they are not qualified to work unsupervised. If you read where the nursing needs are in the US, they are in ICU, OR, PACU, or home care. These are areas that never hired new grads without completing extra training. The venting I read is the disappointment that all the time and effort they have spent doesn't equal a hospital position in the USA or a position in their home country.
  9. by   Atheos
    Quote from ghillbert
    The point is, if people come to the international forum looking for information about licensure, or immigration, or venting because they are frustrated that there are no visas... why do you care? Why would you feel the need to comment and go on about how you don't want them in the US and you're glad of retrogression? Yes, there's free speech, blah blah - but what's the POINT? What do you get out of it?

    Someone once gave me good advice about posting online. Ask three questions before posting: Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?


    Why do you care that they are posting?

    Why does it bother you?

    The point is that this is a forum. That EVERYONE can input their ideas. Everyone. No matter who they are or where they are from.
  10. by   SuesquatchRN
    Quote from Stanley-RN2B
    Why do you care that they are posting?

    Why does it bother you?

    The point is that this is a forum. That EVERYONE can input their ideas. Everyone. No matter who they are or where they are from.
    Y'know, Stanley, I have the RIGHT to walk through an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood on Shabbos in a halter top and short shorts while eating a ham and cheese sandwich. It doesn't mean I should.

    :yldhdbng:
  11. by   azkh
    I understand what you are going through, I am glad that you are speaking out about this. I don't know in which state you are having this problem, but it has become just an ironic situation that WE as an foreigners are hired to do the same work which THEY as an Americans doen;t want to do it anymore, or not compitent enough to do there jobs. From IT positions to Meat plants, From vinyards to nurses. Who's fault is this, NOT OURS!
  12. by   mauiboy
    Quote from Stanley-RN2B
    Why do you care that they are posting?

    Why does it bother you?

    The point is that this is a forum. That EVERYONE can input their ideas. Everyone. No matter who they are or where they are from.

    yeah,you're right.anyone can input their ideas but they have to be on-topic and don't hi-jack the thread with their post like what's happening again on this thread.
    i'm just amazed how these so called "guardians of nursing standards" managed to steer this thread so that they can post again their biased view about foreign nurses.
  13. by   Atheos
    Quote from SuesquatchRN
    Y'know, Stanley, I have the RIGHT to walk through an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood on Shabbos in a halter top and short shorts while eating a ham and cheese sandwich. It doesn't mean I should.

    :yldhdbng:
    Ahh but if you choose to do so no one can blame you. It's NOT their neighborhood. Same reason I drink on Sunday. Same reason church's ring their bells and mosques do the call to prayer on loud speakers.

    Sharing. It's ours... Not theirs or mine.

    There was a time where you couldn't walk in a neighborhood because you wore the wrong skin that day...
    Last edit by Atheos on Dec 28, '08

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