For-Profit NP admissions... I thought they were joking!

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This is a story about how I got accepted to a big name online for-profit:

A phone number kept calling me incessantly for weeks... I finally answered, prepared for my usual, "I'm on the no-call list so please remove me from your call list." It was a rep from some school I hadn't heard of, but apparently I'd filled out some webform.

Had I? OK... "are you good to go in my state? Well, I'm not interested but... OK I'll look at your application." I'd filled out the whole application in about 10 minutes while on the phone with the rep with 6 questions:

"Where do I submit my references information?"

"Where do I submit my CV?"

"Transcripts?"

"What are the application essay guidelines?"

"What is the interview like?"

"Is there an application fee?"

The answers were: "we don't need references, no CV, only transcripts for your BSN (not the other 5 schools), no essay, no interview, no fees."

I almost asked if they were a real school or if this was some kind of joke, but I played along because I was thoroughly amused. I sent one transcript, worth $5 for my amusement. Then I hit the internet to learn about this school.

I learned the school is a for-profit. Oh..... now it makes sense! I learned Walden doesn't have a physical campus, only office buildings that house the servers, executives, and recruiters (aka admissions advisors). Perusing threads on this forum only darkened the reputation. Yet, they are accredited by HLC and CCNE.

36 hours later I received my acceptance email. I declined. The admissions advisor started leaving me voicemails implying I must have clicked on the wrong button... I could still change my mind. I wrote him an email politely informing him I'd declined. He left me another voicemail that was distinctly aggravated.

I'm not opposed to the idea of online programs, but there have to be standards because a profession is perceived and regulated by its lowest common denominator. This selection process for lowest common denominator in NP education is a joke. No entry standards lets in good students too, but don't filter the subpar. It implies the standards once in the program won't be high either. The bar for admission should be higher than a RN license, a pulse, and the ability to sign off on student loans.

"we don't need references, no CV, only transcripts for your BSN (not the other 5 schools), no essay, no interview, no fees."

I think we all know Walden is a joke and should be avoided, but I honestly had no idea it was this bad.

No references? No admission essay? No CV? How in the world can a student "apply" to this "school" and feel good about that decision?

Like a poster said above, not everyone who wants to be an NP can or should be an NP. It's not a right. You have to deserve it.

I think we all know Walden is a joke and should be avoided, but I honestly had no idea it was this bad.

No references? No admission essay? No CV? How in the world can a student "apply" to this "school" and feel good about that decision?

Y'know all those people who post here to ask, "What's the quickest, easiest NP program I can get into"???? Or, "I have lousy grades but want to become an NP, what are my options"??? Or (in not so many words), I want to become an NP, but I don't want to have to put forth any effort??? Those are the people who apply to the "diploma mill" "schools." Plus some unfortunates who sincerely don't know any better and don't realize what they're getting into. If you've been reading here for any length of time, you know that there are plenty of people posting here who seem unaware, or question whether, there is any significant difference between schools, and plenty of people here who will tell them, that, no, there is no difference among schools, all nursing programs are the same, and it doesn't matter where you go.

The for-profit schools are making a fortune off people who can't get into the legitimate, reputable schools, or can't be bothered to put forth the effort they would have to in a legitimate, reputable program. (Or know so little about higher education in general that they don't know any better.)

These schools are referred to as "diploma mills" for a reason. And I feel it's worth pointing out that the Obama administration was clamping down on them, but the Trump administration is now reversing and undoing those efforts, and turning those schools loose to operate however they like once again. I am deeply, deeply offended that my tax dollars are spent on student loans given to these "schools."

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
If you're having issues garnering respect from your peers then it probably has nothing to do, directly, with the school you've obtained your np degree from. Walden NP grad here. I work for one of the most well-regarded research facilities in the country, and no one questions where I received my degree.

I congratulate you for your success in graduating, getting certified, and finding a job. No one is saying that no lawyer, psychologist, businessman, or NP made it after graduating from these programs. But for everyone like you, there are many others who could not find a preceptor, hence, were delayed in starting clinical rotations and had their degree completion pushed back. There were those who signed up for a program only to find out that there isn't much support in ensuring their academic success, took huge school loans and never got the degree they thought they will earn and defaulted on the loan. It's true that schools are part of a commercial enterprise but there should be accountability to deliver a promise of a complete education as a paying consumer which for-profit schools don't offer.

Specializes in Med-Surg/ ER/ homecare.

Wow! That is incredibly sad and disturbing! Why isn't this being stopped?

It truly is sad for those of us attending reputable, highly regarded schools. From what I have read, many employers are catching on to this trend and are not hiring those from these for profit schools.

I know this is anecdotal, but when I was looking into schools, I was talking with the physicians from the group I work with, and we were discussing me possibly coming to work with them when I graduate. They said, point blank, that if I didn't go to a reputable program (meaning required time on campus, proctored exams, etc - you know, actual minimum requirements) they would not hire me. It did not matter that we have a great working relationship currently. Their thought was that I would not be an acceptable NP, no matter how much time I personally invested, if my formal education was lacking. They were not willing to pick up the slack if/when I was hired there.

Similarly, I know the medical director for my health system, and her opinion echoes the above. The institution absolutely matters. And I assume that it will only continue to matter more in the coming years.

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.

Well there are health systems (i.e., Allina Health in Minnesota which ironically is where one of these schools are headquartered), specifically states in their NP job postings that they would not hire new grads of proprietary or for-profit programs:

Working at Allina Health (open the link, search NP positions, and look at the last paragraph under qualifications).

Well there are health systems (i.e., Allina Health in Minnesota which ironically is where one of these schools are headquartered), specifically states in their NP job postings that they would not hire new grads of proprietary or for-profit programs:

Working at Allina Health (open the link, search NP positions, and look at the last paragraph under qualifications).

I saw similar cautions (about some (online and proprietary) schools not meeting their requirements), almost verbatim, listed by a number of organizations (although I don't recall exactly who now) several years ago, the last time I was job-hunting for psych CNS positions. I'm sure the "schools" don't disclose this info to prospective students ...

I wish that more employers would take a stand against the low-quality programs.

I don't understand WHY people are so quick to bash Walden?

I am proud to say I'm an FNP student there. I have been treated by a Walden FNP grad at a local urgent care center. She is now going for her DNP. Another colleague of mine earned her FNP through South University, again online. She said she applied to Walden because it is a good program but she already had an MSN in Nursing Education and they didn't want to work with her in regards to transferring some of her credits from that so she'd have to take some of the Core classes again so she went with South.

It's just like Undergraduate schools....basic nursing education. You get out of it what you put into it. I've known nurses who graduated from the top Universities with their ADN or BSN and I wouldn't let them care for my dead grandmother. As with anything, there will be good NP's and bad ones, just like with Dr.'s. As long as I pass the certification exam once I complete the program, it shouldn't really matter WHERE I went to school. In my case, I'll have 20 years of clinical experience to help my transition to CRNP. I know Dr's who went to med school in the Carribean. They passed the licensing exams. And guess what? They are also called DOCTOR. As much as the guy who got his MD at Harvard.

Walden isn't the only 'diploma' mill NP school out there either. I noticed that one of my former instructors from my Undergrad program is listed as an instructor for Walden U. She has a PhD from Pitt and her CRNP from Syracuse. She was my peds Professor back then. The things that she told me have stuck with me to this day! And before she semi-retired, she was the director of the CRNP program at my Alma Mater.

Just getting sick and tired of seeing Walden bashed over and over and over again!

Specializes in CTICU.
I don't understand WHY people are so quick to bash Walden?

What are you not understanding? I think people were fairly clear in their criticisms of the program.

I am proud to say I'm an FNP student there. I have been treated by a Walden FNP grad at a local urgent care center. She is now going for her DNP. Another colleague of mine earned her FNP through South University, again online. She said she applied to Walden because it is a good program but she already had an MSN in Nursing Education and they didn't want to work with her in regards to transferring some of her credits from that so she'd have to take some of the Core classes again so she went with South.

I am not sure what your point is. As has been stated multiple times, not all students at Walden or other for-profit schools are terrible. Many are just fine and smart and will do well. However the school is NOT doing anything to safeguard patients by implementing even minimum admission standards (beyond an ability to pay the bills). If you are a patient advocate and you don't see anything wrong with that, I am not sure how to explain it.

I know Dr's who went to med school in the Carribean. They passed the licensing exams. And guess what? They are also called DOCTOR. As much as the guy who got his MD at Harvard.

I know after a google search which one I would call for an appointment first...

Walden isn't the only 'diploma' mill NP school out there either.

Several things - Walden isn't the only program criticized. It's just one of the more aggressively recruiting ones, so people have heard of it. Any program with NO admission standards beyond financial ability, is doing a serious disservice to patients, students and the NP profession as a whole.

I noticed that one of my former instructors from my Undergrad program is listed as an instructor for Walden U. She has a PhD from Pitt and her CRNP from Syracuse. She was my peds Professor back then. The things that she told me have stuck with me to this day! And before she semi-retired, she was the director of the CRNP program at my Alma Mater.

If school reputation isn't important, why did you tell us that your former instructor went to Pitt and Syracuse? Exactly - those names impart an understanding of what caliber of degree she obtained. This is precisely what places like Walden jeopardize.

You have chosen your path, and that's fine, and hopefully you will be very successful. Nobody is doubting that. The point is that many of your classmates who will also graduate will NOT be of an acceptable clinical standard, but they'll also be given a diploma. If you are a serious student who works hard, that should annoy YOU more than anyone else.

I guess I don't see what the big deal is. Honestly. I'm in the Midwest. Boards should weed out those who truly don't know what they're doing. And the vast majority of NPs that I see in my area have graduated from an on-line program; they're all employed.

I've been a nurse and in nurse management a long time (currently knee-deep in my FNP program). I have never hired anyone solely based on where they went to school or decided against an applicant based on that criteria, either. It's just not happening where I live.

Specializes in Pediatrics.

Boards seek the absolute minimum for entry-level practice, which is a 65% or better on the exams. To me, 65% is failing, and not "weeding out" people who do not know what they're doing. What's more, the examinations themselves are a joke, having almost more theory than clinical questions on the exam.

The question is how are we regulating the standards of nurse practitioner education and profession when we have schools with a 95% acceptance rate (Chamberlain University), who enroll thousands of students each semester, do not provide quality clinical sites while charging ridiculous tuition rates, and then slap a diploma in their hands and wait for the next round of tuition; I'm sorry, students.

Sure, these sites are accredited, but have you ever actually examined the criteria for accreditation from AACN/CCNE? Its vague wording, along with no standards or minimums for entry, a pitiful minimum curriculum and clinical practice hours, is laughable and embarrassing. I suspect a reason why it's not changing is because one of the board members works for one of these online, find-your-own-site schools. However, it's developing a negative view of our profession, and is hurting our argument for independent practice. I'd be interested to see a study (or several, in fact) comparing the practice of students from these types of schools versus those who graduated from schools that provided them clinical experiences.

And yes, people will get hired regardless of source of education. But word of mouth travels, and I have heard one too many times that parents will never send their kids to a NP who graduated from Chamberlain, or a colleague who questions how another Walden graduate NP even functions daily in her role.

I couldn't resist, and I looked it up. I was sorry to learn that Walden does offer a Psych NP program, but glad to know they can't offer their program to residents of my state.

A total of one year RN experience is required, and the program requires few than 300 hours of clinical prescribing hours.

Both horrible and dangerous.

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