This is a story about how I got accepted to a big name online for-profit:
A phone number kept calling me incessantly for weeks... I finally answered, prepared for my usual, "I'm on the no-call list so please remove me from your call list." It was a rep from some school I hadn't heard of, but apparently I'd filled out some webform.
Had I? OK... "are you good to go in my state? Well, I'm not interested but... OK I'll look at your application." I'd filled out the whole application in about 10 minutes while on the phone with the rep with 6 questions:
"Where do I submit my references information?"
"Where do I submit my CV?"
"Transcripts?"
"What are the application essay guidelines?"
"What is the interview like?"
"Is there an application fee?"
The answers were: "we don't need references, no CV, only transcripts for your BSN (not the other 5 schools), no essay, no interview, no fees."
I almost asked if they were a real school or if this was some kind of joke, but I played along because I was thoroughly amused. I sent one transcript, worth $5 for my amusement. Then I hit the internet to learn about this school.
I learned the school is a for-profit. Oh..... now it makes sense! I learned Walden doesn't have a physical campus, only office buildings that house the servers, executives, and recruiters (aka admissions advisors). Perusing threads on this forum only darkened the reputation. Yet, they are accredited by HLC and CCNE.
36 hours later I received my acceptance email. I declined. The admissions advisor started leaving me voicemails implying I must have clicked on the wrong button... I could still change my mind. I wrote him an email politely informing him I'd declined. He left me another voicemail that was distinctly aggravated.
I'm not opposed to the idea of online programs, but there have to be standards because a profession is perceived and regulated by its lowest common denominator. This selection process for lowest common denominator in NP education is a joke. No entry standards lets in good students too, but don't filter the subpar. It implies the standards once in the program won't be high either. The bar for admission should be higher than a RN license, a pulse, and the ability to sign off on student loans.
lots of people seem to forget that the reason its so easy is because there are so many nurses. ridiculously lousy nurses and stay as nurses. I am glad that they are requiring a Bachelors to start working in Hospitals now, but they need to slow down these accelerated BSN programs.
lots of people seem to forget that the reason its so easy is because there are so many nurses. ridiculously lousy nurses and stay as nurses. I am glad that they are requiring a Bachelors to start working in Hospitals now, but they need to slow down these accelerated BSN programs.
I technically do not have a BSN - I was a graduate entry NP student. Our "accelerated" program for sitting for boards was basically the same as the undergraduates took, except we had more clinical hours, took our pathophys, anatomy, micro and physio all at the graduate level. We just didn't take any non-nursing classes because we all had bachelors in something else so we didn't need more classes to become "well-rounded" students. I've had more literature classes in english and spanish really than any one person needs to have LOL I know grad-entry has also traditionally been ***ed about.
I digress. I am always a bit shocked to hear the experience of some of the for-profit schools and even just the online. I went in-person to a traditional, well-known university. I never had to find my own clinical placement or preceptors, that was all handled by the program. We would get assigned to wherever they told us to go. I still had to take the GRE, had to have a decent GPA, references, and an entrance essay and interview.
I'm neonatal so I don't know if that's the reason my experience is so different, or because I went to a traditional university. I feel bad though for the students because I feel like they are being cheated out of the education they should be receiving.
Our hospital sent out an email, about eight months ago, placing employees on notice that no degrees from online, FOR-PROFIT schools would be accepted for new employees or new degrees, regardless of accreditation, for promotion, pay, position, etc. You can't do tuition reimbursement, even if you graduate and pass your boards for FNP, they are not going to offer you a job. You can't use the credentials after your name on badges, etc.
Other private schools, etc, are acceptable.
They are D-O-N-E with these schools. CCNE accreditation doesn't mean anything anymore in my opinion.
I tried to be nice and precept ONE student from a big, huge, "for-profit" school. After four weeks I dismissed her from the clinical site. She wasn't even close to being prepared. I do not have these problems with other schools.
I don't understand WHY people are so quick to bash Walden?
I am proud to say I'm an FNP student there. I have been treated by a Walden FNP grad at a local urgent care center. She is now going for her DNP. Another colleague of mine earned her FNP through South University, again online. She said she applied to Walden because it is a good program but she already had an MSN in Nursing Education and they didn't want to work with her in regards to transferring some of her credits from that so she'd have to take some of the Core classes again so she went with South.
It's just like Undergraduate schools....basic nursing education. You get out of it what you put into it. I've known nurses who graduated from the top Universities with their ADN or BSN and I wouldn't let them care for my dead grandmother. As with anything, there will be good NP's and bad ones, just like with Dr.'s. As long as I pass the certification exam once I complete the program, it shouldn't really matter WHERE I went to school. In my case, I'll have 20 years of clinical experience to help my transition to CRNP. I know Dr's who went to med school in the Carribean. They passed the licensing exams. And guess what? They are also called DOCTOR. As much as the guy who got his MD at Harvard.
Walden isn't the only 'diploma' mill NP school out there either. I noticed that one of my former instructors from my Undergrad program is listed as an instructor for Walden U. She has a PhD from Pitt and her CRNP from Syracuse. She was my peds Professor back then. The things that she told me have stuck with me to this day! And before she semi-retired, she was the director of the CRNP program at my Alma Mater.
Just getting sick and tired of seeing Walden bashed over and over and over again!
Do you know why someone with those credentials works for Walden: Money.
Walden pays better than most of them.
The reason Walden is getting bashed is because the vast majority of their exams are NOT proctored. If you do not have proctored exams, your degree is not worth the paper it's written on.
There are no live check-offs to make sure you have your clinical skills in place before you go to your site. What they allow you to "count" for a patient visit is a joke.
I saw online where a pharmacology course had the instructor changed something like four times in one semester because they couldn't keep anybody. You would never see that happen in a regular APRN program.
Just because you pass your boards, doesn't mean you are competent to practice. Programs like Walden are exactly why physicians are very reluctant to hire APRNs in general and it damages the profession FOR EVERYONE because they are so unprepared they require months of training.
You need to ask yourself this: If the program was so reputable and the graduates qualified, then why is everyone bashing it and not other programs?
Do you know how much additional training I needed when I got my first job as a CNM? I needed to learn the computer system and a little bit more practice putting in IUDs.
I was able to take 20 to 30 patients a day four weeks after I started, spent two days in orientation with the physician and felt 100% comfortable on my own. Did I know everything? Nope..but I sure knew what I did and didn't know.
You see too many graduates from these for-profit programs post all the time how "scared" they are to start a new job. If you are that scared, you are unprepared. A few butterflies gives you a healthy appreciation for what you are doing, but nobody should go into their first job feeling that incompetent.
Education is "for profit"! It doesn't matter what school you go to. It is a commodity that you purchase for yourself in order to further your career. The instructors have to be paid, the upkeep and infrastructure of the school itself has to be paid for so to say that "for profit" schools are "all bad" is not a fair statement.
I've done multiple courses at both a well-known "for profit" school (University of Phoenix) as well as several B&M schools (Community College of Southern Nevada in Las Vegas, Marian College in Indianapolis, several colleges in central IL) and I found that education is what you make of it. I don't need to sit in a large auditorium with a bunch of people and watch a PPP. I can do that on my own.
As to finding my own preceptors, in one school (my post MSN peds CNS), they had a very specific list that you could choose from. For my first post-MSN adult CNS, I had a larger list but also had the option of finding my own preceptor.
We are doing a disservice to broadly state that one type of education is superior to another. I went to a private college, Marian College because they had no wait list - yes it was expensive and no I didn't receive a superior education because it was a private school. It was on par with the education I received at UofP.
Higher education shouldn't be like kindergarten where the teacher tells you each individual step and guides your hand to make sure you do it right - it should be about the drive to learn more and do more and you have to take the initiative in order to come out on top.
I do agree that a little bit of healthy anxiety is a good thing - it keeps you on your toes.
Do you know why someone with those credentials works for Walden: Money.
Walden pays better than most of them.
The reason Walden is getting bashed is because the vast majority of their exams are NOT proctored. If you do not have proctored exams, your degree is not worth the paper it's written on.
There are no live check-offs to make sure you have your clinical skills in place before you go to your site. What they allow you to "count" for a patient visit is a joke.
I saw online where a pharmacology course had the instructor changed something like four times in one semester because they couldn't keep anybody. You would never see that happen in a regular APRN program.
Just because you pass your boards, doesn't mean you are competent to practice. Programs like Walden are exactly why physicians are very reluctant to hire APRNs in general and it damages the profession FOR EVERYONE because they are so unprepared they require months of training.
You need to ask yourself this: If the program was so reputable and the graduates qualified, then why is everyone bashing it and not other programs?
Do you know how much additional training I needed when I got my first job as a CNM? I needed to learn the computer system and a little bit more practice putting in IUDs.
I was able to take 20 to 30 patients a day four weeks after I started, spent two days in orientation with the physician and felt 100% comfortable on my own. Did I know everything? Nope..but I sure knew what I did and didn't know.
You see too many graduates from these for-profit programs post all the time how "scared" they are to start a new job. If you are that scared, you are unprepared. A few butterflies gives you a healthy appreciation for what you are doing, but nobody should go into their first job feeling that incompetent.
Well said. I get so annoyed with people who don’t see the main point. It hurts the profession. Plain and simple. It’s not a hard concept to understand.
You go go to Walden for what purpose? A set of power points and bogus discussion boards? No clinical placement? I honestly wouldn’t trust an NP that went there if I could help it. Sounds harsh but it’s true.
Our hospital sent out an email, about eight months ago, placing employees on notice that no degrees from online, FOR-PROFIT schools would be accepted for new employees or new degrees, regardless of accreditation, for promotion, pay, position, etc. You can't do tuition reimbursement, even if you graduate and pass your boards for FNP, they are not going to offer you a job. You can't use the credentials after your name on badges, etc.
Other private schools, etc, are acceptable.
They are D-O-N-E with these schools. CCNE accreditation doesn't mean anything anymore in my opinion.
This is the first I have heard of an employer doing that. It's a bold move. I wish more employers would make at least some kind of stand on the quality of nursing education they will support.
Your employer went a little further than I would have gone, but at least they are taking a stand in favor of quality.
This is the first I have heard of an employer doing that. It's a bold move. I wish more employers would make at least some kind of stand on the quality of nursing education they will support.
Your employer went a little further than I would have gone, but at least they are taking a stand in favor of quality.
Ok so this would be for new grads I'm presuming? What about someone with 10 years experience? Would they then discount that experience?
Ok so this would be for new grads I'm presuming? What about someone with 10 years experience? Would they then discount that experience?
Well, in your defense, I think that schools like UofP were very different in terms of their online programs 10 or 15 years ago. In fact, I looked into the school myself and decided on a different route. I couldn't say that today.
CaliforniaNurse2BE, BSN, RN
26 Posts
They hurt the reputation of NP's - end of story.