Advanced Nursing is often considered less rigorous than Medicine even though Nursing is it's own profession. Of course there's overlap. Do you think it's because nursing doesn't require the same rigorous premed perquisites?Osteopathic medicine use to be regarded the same well, but now it is equivalent to allopathic medicine. Do you think requiring the premed prerequisite curriculum (eg: PA, DO, MD prereqs) to gain entry to advanced practice will better prepare advanced practice nursing clinicians?
The truth is, it wouldn't hurt. And I do not use anything I learned in my graduate level nursing theory class in my practice at all. That was a waste of 3 credits that could have been incorporated into another class as a lecture or two. Same goes for policy, which focused on health care law....don't use any of it in my day to day life. Policies and procedures of a clinic are vastly different than a health policy class.
I differ in opinion on the policy point. While you may not use health care policy in your day to day practice I do think it's important for the profession as a whole. Without health care policy advocates NPs wouldn't have prescriptive authority or independent practice.
OP, you've started several of this type of thread; it becomes the same argument every time. What is your stake in the matter?
I am just very interested in starting up discussions related to the direction of advanced practice nursing. It's good to hear the perspectives and opinions of nurses and APNs alike. Although I am not in NP school yet, I am very interested in getting into APN healthcare direction and policy during and after graduate schooling. I know this is a hot button topic. I am not into a position to state that NP education is inadequate in creating positive outcomes, I am simply engaging on conversations that spark ideas that might positively improve or change advanced practice.
I LOVE nursing. Healthcare is ever-changing and always evolving. I know nurses and APNs can make a huge impact in its direction. We all know nursing is not a stagnant discipline. We surely cannot afford not talking about these issues.
Again, please don't misinterpret these discussions. I love NPs... I would like to be NP in the future!
Yes, but does that mean EVERY NP student should take it, or only those interested in it or after graduation as an independent learner? What is the reason to include that class but not others? If there is no rhyme or reason, then an overhaul of nursing education seems to be a good idea.
Yes but does that mean EVERY NP student should take it, or only those interested in it or after graduation as an independent learner? What is the reason to include that class but not others? If there is no rhyme or reason, then an overhaul of nursing education seems to be a good idea.[/quote']
Personally and professionally I think every NP and NP student should be active in health care policy. If every NP was involved in policy there would be independent practice in very state by now.
Yes, but does that mean EVERY NP student should take it, or only those interested in it or after graduation as an independent learner? What is the reason to include that class but not others? If there is no rhyme or reason, then an overhaul of nursing education seems to be a good idea.
I think nursing policy and theory courses are fine, and they certainly don't hurt, AS LONG AS they don't take place of legitimate clinical based and science courses. The problem is, it seems the fluffy theory courses are used not to augment a proper science foundation, but to REPLACE it. I think that's because nursing theory is a lot cheaper and easier to teach than hard science courses, and it is easier for a school to start an NP program if a good portion of what they are teaching is basically social science. I think accrediting bodies are fearful of introducing all these hard science requirements into the curriculum because they are afraid it will be too much of a barrier for new programs to get started, and for whatever reason the leadership is currently prioritizing quantity over quality when it comes to NP programs and graduates.
Personally and professionally I think every NP and NP student should be active in health care policy. If every NP was involved in policy there would be independent practice in very state by now.
And personally I think every NP should be required to learn more hard science in school. Why is it that you brush off everyone else's opinion about the NP profession and education process by asking for "proof" yet turn around and spout your opinion as fact without requiring the same proof of yourself. Let me play BostonFNP for a moment: "Please point to a study proving that if every NP was active in health care policy that every state would have independent practice by now."
The fact is there are a number of factors that have prevented full NP independence in every state at this point, and the number of NPs in healthcare policy is not the deciding factor here. Those of us for more hard science could say that would lead to more independence as well. After all, the main argument physician groups use against NPs is that they have inferior training. It would definitely take the wind out of their sails if suddenly NPs were taking the same immunology, gross anatomy, etc courses.
I don't understand the anger and frustration occuring in some of these posts. Also, I don't understand why there is such a culture being fostered in this thread of "NPs could replace physicians if we had more training, they would be perfect providers".
If you want to be a physician, pursue medicine. If you want to stay in Nursing, be an NP. There is no replacing physicians outright in my opinion. Take two equally intelligent persons, one a physician and the other an NP. Now assume they have the same scientific background because of advancing education as proposed here. What do you have? Typically, (and I am saying typically so please don't take this personally if this is not you) you have the NP that works a set schedule of around 40 hours a week, has good vacation, no on call time and rarely if ever gets paged. Many physicians I work with work 80+ hours a week, might get one weekend off a month, take call in the middle of the night after working 12+ hours straight, and must maintain continuing education and research on top of this. That level of immersion in their career is what makes many physicians so sharp and knowledgeable, not the background in the sciences, but the constant daily grind.
Two very separate lifestyles. This is why I chose to enter the NP profession (just got accepted to an FNP program for the fall btw) rather than going into medicine as I was debating on doing. I have a family and time consuming hobbies. I did not want the life of the surgeons and intensivists I work with.
That's EXACTLY why we're having this discussion! I don't want NPs to be associated with an "easier" lifestyle. As medical providers, NPs and physicians are often compared with each other (no denying that!) What irritates the heck out of me is that the NP is usually perceived as less knowledgable because they didn't go to medical school. I want that to be changed! I do not want to go to medical school. I wholeheartedly believe in the nursing model.
I think the previous post is a good example of the type of thinking that holds nursing back. We shouldn't be comfortable with how far nursing science has gotten. We should continually push for improvements. This can be done before, during and after APN school. Whether it's creating a solid foundation in the sciences with APN prerequisites, standardizing the rigorous requirements for admission or continuing professional education. Of course most of this is set already with some programs.
What irritates the heck out of me is that the NP is usually perceived as less knowledgable because they didn't go to medical school. I want that to be changed! Matthew, RN
One way to change that is to stop repeating it. I don't hear this belief in real life, only from the same posters on these threads.
NP education is different than MD education. One is not better than the other. Different roles have different paths and if you have a true team mentality, you will see how different roles complement, rather than compete against, each other.
That's EXACTLY why we're having this discussion! I don't want NPs to be associated with an "easier" lifestyle.
Matthew, RN
Whether you want the perception to change or not it doesn't change the fact that the lifestyles are very different. I am not saying NPs do not work hard, I am simply saying that in my field, the physicians have to attend to patients and their problems (as well as all the extra stuff) for many more hours than the NPs that work for them.
No where did I say that NPs were lacking in knowledge or that they were incompetent. What I am trying to get across is that a lot of posters seem to feel that physicians are irrelevant. That a few didactic courses are all that NP schools are missing. I am simply stating that those core sciences are NOT the reason why physicians get respect.
SHGR, MSN, RN, CNS
1 Article; 1,406 Posts
OP, you've started several of this type of thread; it becomes the same argument every time. What is your stake in the matter?