ADN's being pushed out

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired. The excuses for firing are ridiculous. I have sadly seen some excellent nurses lose their jobs. I am wondering if they want to get rid of the ADNs so they can look "better" with an all BSN staff. Or perhaps they want rid of older nurses who have been there longer because they are higher on the pay scale. Either way, it is very scarey. I myself am BSN, and i am not ashamed to say that what I know does not hold a candle to these fired nurses. Any thoughts?

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
When will nurses see that we have the lowest education required in the medical field.

*** No we don't. PAs and RTs spring to mind as other fields in health care that have multiple entry points.

Lets raise our bar and be the professionals we should be.

*** I am all in favor of raising the bar. I am unconvinced that requiring a BSN for entry to practice does that.

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Specializes in Pain, critical care, administration, med.

I think your message is better delivered to those who are preventing the laws from being passed, not on convincing nurses with associate's degrees that they are sub-par in some way.

Never said anyone was "sub-par". I have been a nurse for 30yrs and was a ADN went back to school for my BSN, MSN and post master's. I am not feeling sorry for myself or my choices I have made. I am stating fact. As a profession we need to elevate ourselves. I have seen more than one post that ADN's post about being pushed out. Hospitals are making the choice for us BSN is all we hire, end of discussion.

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Specializes in Pain, critical care, administration, med.

*** No we don't. PAs and RTs spring to mind as other fields in health care that have multiple entry points.

*** I am all in favor of raising the bar. I am unconvinced that requiring a BSN for entry to practice does that.

The studies have shown better patient outcomes in those patients cared for by BSN. Aiken has done plenty if these studies herself. One cannot convince non-BSN that BSN is preferred. We need to look to better our profession then fight about it among ourselves.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Never said anyone was "sub-par". I have been a nurse for 30yrs and was a ADN went back to school for my BSN, MSN and post master's. I am not feeling sorry for myself or my choices I have made. I am stating fact. As a profession we need to elevate ourselves. I have seen more than one post that ADN's post about being pushed out. Hospitals are making the choice for us BSN is all we hire, end of discussion.

They aren't sub-par, they're just the main reason why out of all possible reasons, that nurses aren't seen as professionals. Raising the bar vs sub-par I confess I committed the crime of mixed sports metaphor. I was first licensed in 1976, so I'm not exactly a newbie to the political machinations in nursing.

I have a question for you. If hospitals are not "preferring BSNs" simply because of the glut of nurses now, why aren't they throwing their weight behind the only thing (new laws) that will stop the BSN ETP proponents from destroying the only thing that gives them a chance in hell of finally succeeding, namely unity within nursing. If you think I am full of it, read this from the ANA itself.

A Policy Perspective on the Entry to Practice Issue

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
The studies have shown better patient outcomes in those patients cared for by BSN.

*** I haven't seen any unbiased, realiable studies showing that.

One cannot convince non-BSN that BSN is preferred.

*** I do have a BSN. It is obvious that at this time many employers of nurses are preferring BSNs. I don't really understand why why say that you can't convince a non-BSN that a BSN is preferred. Who is questioning that?

We need to look to better our profession then fight about it among ourselves.

*** The question is not about bettering our profession. The question is about BSN as entry to practice.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
The studies have shown better patient outcomes in those patients cared for by BSN. Aiken has done plenty if these studies herself. One cannot convince non-BSN that BSN is preferred. We need to look to better our profession then fight about it among ourselves.

You are hurting your cause with statements like this. Lots of non-BSNs feel as you do and it sounds like you are implying they lack the capacity to grasp something outside their own experience. "Let everyone agree with us so we can stop arguing" smacks of hubris and the "top-down" mentality that is one of the reasons for the ultimate failure of BSN ETP in every state so far (because ND repealed theirs) for close to 50 years.

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They want a BSN, and they don't wanna pay for it. It's like going to a fine steakhouse and telling the waiter you want the best filet in the place but your not gonna spent more than 5 dollars.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
They want a BSN and they don't wanna pay for it. It's like going to a fine steakhouse and telling the waiter you want the best filet in the place but your not gonna spent more than 5 dollars.[/quote']

If the BSN is the best filet, what's the ADN?

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
The studies have shown better patient outcomes in those patients cared for by BSN. Aiken has done plenty if these studies herself. One cannot convince non-BSN that BSN is preferred. We need to look to better our profession then fight about it among ourselves.

*** As I have mentioned I haven't not seen any such reliable studies. Speaking as a rapid response nurse, whose job it is to respond to changed in patient condition, I have totally unable to detect and greater or lesser degree of critical thinking prioritization or assessment skills bases on the staff nurses degree. I spend large parts of his shift explaining and teaching things, not just the how, but the why to nurses who hold ADNs, BSNs and MSNs. Shouldn't there be some detectable difference between them?

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
They want a BSN, and they don't wanna pay for it. It's like going to a fine steakhouse and telling the waiter you want the best filet in the place but your not gonna spent more than 5 dollars.

*** No, it's nothing like that. Although your point about them wanting to increase to price of admission is valid.

A more apt beef analogy is the premium price paid for certified Angus beef as compared to Herford beef. Bother are the same, just one comes in a different color and is more expensive, though of no better qualiety.

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Specializes in Critical Care.

The implementation by the ANA of their BSN as entry-to-practice to goal is a classic example of inept "ready-aim-fire" policy implementation. It's one thing to set BSN entry as the goal, but setting a goal is only a very small fraction of the work required to achieve a goal. We're almost 50 years into their work to achieve this goal, yet the ANA has still made no apparent attempt to address the issues that prevent us from achieving that goal. They've made weak attempts to explain this away as being due to outside factors, which is just arble garble (I've been trying all week to use that term).

Whatever the actual severity/existence of the current Nursing shortage, we can't close all the ADN programs and cut our graduate output more than half, this would have severe, devastating effects on Nursing. At the same time we can't double enrollment in our BSN programs which already struggle to accommodate the clinical experience needed to facilitate good Nursing education, and if you listen to some Nursing education leaders, such as Patricia Benner, we've already pushed that capacity too far.

So the million dollar question, the one the ANA hasn't been able to answer during their entire 50 year push to move BSN only grads, is how we actually do that without destroying Nursing education and our role in healthcare.

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The implementation by the ANA of their BSN as entry-to-practice to goal is a classic example of inept "ready-aim-fire" policy implementation. It's one thing to set BSN entry as the goal, but setting a goal is only a very small fraction of the work required to achieve a goal. We're almost 50 years into their work to achieve this goal, yet the ANA has still made no apparent attempt to address the issues that prevent us from achieving that goal. They've made weak attempts to explain this away as being due to outside factors, which is just arble garble (I've been trying all week to use that term).

Whatever the actual severity/existence of the current Nursing shortage, we can't close all the ADN programs and cut our graduate output more than half, this would have severe, devastating effects on Nursing. At the same time we can't double enrollment in our BSN programs which already struggle to accommodate the clinical experience needed to facilitate good Nursing education, and if you listen to some Nursing education leaders, such as Patricia Benner, we've already pushed that capacity too far.

So the million dollar question, the one the ANA hasn't been able to answer during their entire 50 year push to move BSN only grads, is how we actually do that without destroying Nursing education and our role in healthcare.

Leaving aside your excellent post there is another fly in the "BSN" ointment. Not all students either just out of high school or returning can cope with four year college studies.

BSN degrees do not function in a vacuum, and those students must meet the same entry, retention and graduation standards as everyone else on campus going for a four year degree.

General and organic chemistry, finite math, statistics, 300 and even 400 level English, and so forth just aren't up everyone's street academically. But it makes no difference if one obtains all A's in nursing major courses, if you cannot cope with gen ed/core you aren't going to graduate.

If you really want to deal with the real look to Canada and create two levels of professional nurse. Four year college grads would be RN's and ADN grads can be *whatever" title can be thought up that won't cause offence (much).

Nursing must adapt to serve the needs on the ground of the local area. For instance here in NYS yes, the large "destination" hospitals like NYP and Mount Sinai maybe able to justify hiring only BSN grads for whatever reasons. But there are plenty of hospitals elsewhere in the state that manage fine with ADN grads.

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