ADN vs BSN My daughter and I having a heated Discussion!

tiggerforhim · Jan 8, 2005

Well, one thing no one has mentioned beyond the money is the difference educationally between an AD and a BSN. BSNs have additional training (supposedly in some cases - insert wry grin) in critical thinking skills, research, and bookwork. A BSN is also required for higher education in nursing, you know, MS and PhD (God forbid, I'm sounding like my nursing head of school!). Therefore a BSN can pave the way to a higher paying job in many different fields. An issue, therefore, is what ultimate end the daughter wants to pursue. I myself went into nursing after a first degree in English, and there are loans I am paying off, but I think it was worth everything. I also had a wonderful experience in my 4 year school. Mom, you are you, and your daughter is a different person and will have different experiences, even if she takes the exact same classes as you did.

NOIRLINCOLN · Jan 8, 2005

are those 18 in addition to the nursing classes? they dont sound absurd to me. pathophysiology is important, as is pharmacology for obvious reasons. nutrition is good to know, what with so many people needed diet therapy-for weight loss, for diabetes, for cardiovascular health, for medication interactions, etc. sociology? i can't support that. i didn't like sociology, lol, so i wont stick up for that.
those are all important classes, ones i'd hardly call absurd.

This (18) cr curriculum just requires too many divergent foci. It lookes like it will put her on overload. When I said too many gen ed classes I was really referring to some of the other nursing curriculums that she has been looking at that require: (2) chemistry classes [and the ADN program will accept her high school chemistry although we do plan to have her take a college level chem class], (2) heritage classes, (2) foreign language classes, studies in race, and statistics, stuff like that. I am all for education! I used to teach high school chemistry, but I do not want to put too many classes that will not be part of the NCLEX in between "The Test". I want her to establish a financial support system before taking too much theory. Theory is wonderful if you can sit around and afford it. I also want her to get the discipline of critically thinking asap. I think there is so much to learn from doing. There are so many good nurses out there in the clinical evironment who can teach her the value of making "Real" decisions. Some of the best nurses that I have encountered have been LVNs. I would actually prefer the LVN route for both her and I, but it was discouraging to sit in the prereq classes with LVNs telling me that their careers are very limited b/c they do not have their RN. The LVNs did not seem to be too bogged down with extemporaneous higher learning brainwashing. I have a real value for people who can keep it real. I want her to develop a value and deep respect for keeping it real before she adds to much theoretical information to her knowledge bank.

NOIRLINCOLN · Jan 8, 2005

WOW I had to take all of those classes plus many more and am paying $500.00 a credit for an ADN program. Sometimes you have to let them find out for themselves. When I graduated high school I decided to go to business school for medical assisting instead of nursing right off the bat. My mom was so against it. Guess what choice I made? Now here I am living back at home again at the age of 27 going to college for nursing. Darn I hate when that women is right!

I was (23) yrs old when I started my AS degree and finished at (25). I did not realize how young I was then. I studied to be an imaging technician, but never got my license in that modality. During and after I was graduated from Jr. college I was broke and a single parent so I rushed out, and left town to get a job. After waiting several months I finally got a job in my technical field, but had to leave home and support to get it. I moved with a (2) yr old. I had no idea that quality day care would be as hard to come by as it was in NNews, VA where we moved. I went thru some hellatious babysitters until I mentioned my dilemma to my girlfriend and she said that her sister was a babysitter. After working I would rush to pick up my daughter. I had no emotional support system, did not have the maturity to manage life and study for my imaging license. I kept trying to rectify the fact that her father left us, and at that I did not want to suffer the personal insult of having been abandoned. I then worked (2) yrs and moved back home distraught at the age of (27). I felt like a complete failure when I had to return home. When I came home I finished my BS degree. I enjoyed having free time while pursuing my BS degree to teach my daughter may things. We could not afford a car so we had to ride public transit. I decided to teach her to read by having her read all the advertisements on the bus and in the town as we walked along. Of course there are many things to say. My father made me feel like a failure the whole time that we moved back home. He gave excessive emotional and some financial support to my brother who later went on to become and engineer, and my father ignored me. My mother constantly reminded me that her co-workers children were prospering while I was stuggling to sort out this whirlwind. Needless to say my moving back home did not help me to have the locus of control that I needed. It was really embarassing moving back home and not being able to financially support myself. This is why I am teaching my daughter to build her financial future before all else.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Jan 8, 2005

But again, the bottom line is this is not your life. She has to make these decisions and mistakes herself. That is part of growing up. She may do wonderfully in a four year school. Maybe she feels like you are saying she isn't smart enough to get a four year degree by pushing so hard to go to CC.

Money isn't everything and you can definitely tell her that your level of financial contribution will not go up if she decides to go somewhere more expensive, but she has got to be able to make her own decisions. From everything you posted, you seem too involved, especially emotionally, in what is your daughter's decision.

You are alienating her by constantly fighting with her about it and not providing her any emotional support for what she wants to do with her life, just like your family didn't provide for you

NOIRLINCOLN · Jan 8, 2005

But again, the bottom line is this is not your life. She has to make these decisions and mistakes herself. That is part of growing up. She may do wonderfully in a four year school. Maybe she feels like you are saying she isn't smart enough to get a four year degree by pushing so hard to go to CC.
Money isn't everything and you can definitely tell her that your level of financial contribution will not go up if she decides to go somewhere more expensive, but she has got to be able to make her own decisions. From everything you posted, you seem too involved, especially emotionally, in what is your daughter's decision.
You are alienating her by constantly fighting with her about it and not providing her any emotional support for what she wants to do with her life, just like your family didn't provide for you

I definitely think that she is smart enough. She is a straight (A) student in college and in high school. She has been inducted into the National Honor Society. Her father who abandoned us is a Dr, so she has good intelligent genes. I do not want to alienate her. This is my first real test in being a pt advocate, so I plan to step back and advocate for what she wants to do. Thank you for shaking me.

live4today, RN · Jan 8, 2005

My daughter has taken, with the exception of A&P I&2, her prereqs. She is taking both this summer. She will be eligible to enter the ADN program this fall. I am so excited about her getting her uniform, white shoes, stethescope, nursing care plan sheets, and clinically rotating this fall! She is contemplating going to a BSN program instead. The BSN program at the university is $455.00 per credit hr as opposed to $81.00 at the Jr college. Obviously money is an issue for us, and I do not want her to go into debt. I told her that it is best to take her NCLEX asap and not to put unnecessary time and info between that time. I also feel that she will get more nursing experience by doing it what I call the 2+1 way, which is the bridge program rather than the 3+0 way, not to mention that the hospital will probably pay for the bridged year. I do not like (4) yr colleges b/c I have never had as great an exp. at any of them as at the community colleges. I have gone to (4) diff (4) yr colleges, and (2) diff community colleges. I am currently enrolled in an ADN community college program and I love my instructors! She will be going to a different community college in a different state. I am very familiar with the community college that she will, God willin', go to this fall, b/c I graduated from there with an AS degree and she has taken all her prereqs except Micro there. We disagree every night about this decision b/c I do not feel that more general education classes will make her a better nurse, and it will cost her a year of work. She plans to meet with the (4) colleges and find out if she can enter with sophomore status. I have looked at some of the (4) yr curriculums and they are absurd. They require pathophysiology (4) cr, pharmacology (3) cr, foundations (5) cr, nutrition (3) cr, and sociology (3) cr this is a ttl of (18) cr which is inhumane, as opposed to (8) cr at the Jr college. I really feel that (18) cr is a recipe for failure. She tells me that she wants to be challenged, live on campus, she is convinced that she can have a social life while going to nursing school, and has long range plans to go to med school. I tell her lets make small successes, and then progress to bigger ones.

I'm bringing the original poster's post forward because I do not read where the daughter is footing the bill herself. :confused:

NOIRLINCOLN........Is your daughter footing the cost of her own education, or are you and her father???? May I ask how old your daughter is? Thanks for responding and for clarification.

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · Jan 8, 2005

But again, the bottom line is this is not your life. She has to make these decisions and mistakes herself. That is part of growing up...

Now, I have no experience in this arena (and am also dreading my 4 yr old growing up :bluecry1: ), but with your experience, I would think that your opinion should count for something. Don't get me wrong, I don't completely agree with your reasons for not doing the BSN. I'm studying nursing education, and realize, to some extent, the importance of the BSN as entry level. I got my ADN then BSN, and turned out OK. But I knew $$ was an issue with my parents, and I (and we) had other priorities at the time (in hindsight were a little skewed, but that's neither here nor there, as hindsight is 20/20).

Money isn't everything and you can definitely tell her that your level of financial contribution will not go up if she decides to go somewhere more expensive, but she has got to be able to make her own decisions.

$$ is a big consideration. Sure we'd all like to give our children the best we can, but maybe she doesn't want to see her child drowning in student loans. Besides, Most employers will pay for BSN once yo are working.

From everything you posted, you seem too involved, especially emotionally, in what is your daughter's decision. You are alienating her by constantly fighting with her about it and not providing her any emotional support for what she wants to do with her life, just like your family didn't provide for you

I truly mean this, without sarcasm. Is this when you let them start making their own decisions? What happens if she defaults on these student loans? I know every child is different, and hopefully you get to know your kids at this point (to some extent) and their level of maturity, responsibility, and self control. I'm 31, and wasn't in that place too long ago. And I look at 25 yr olds and say to myself "where were her parents when she was growing up?" No guidance, no direction --> no $, no education, no husband (with children), dead end jobs... I don't think caring is so wrong. But again, no experience to draw from...

loriangel14, RN · Jan 8, 2005

. This is my first real test in being a pt advocate, so I plan to step back and advocate for what she wants to do.

This is not a patient though. This is your daughter.

LilPeanut, MSN, RN, NP · Jan 8, 2005

Now, I have no experience in this arena (and am also dreading my 4 yr old growing up ), but with your experience, I would think that your opinion should count for something. Don't get me wrong, I don't completely agree with your reasons for not doing the BSN. I'm studying nursing education, and realize, to some extent, the importance of the BSN as entry level. I got my ADN then BSN, and turned out OK. But I knew $$ was an issue with my parents, and I (and we) had other priorities at the time (in hindsight were a little skewed, but that's neither here nor there, as hindsight is 20/20).

It's not a matter of whether it will turn out ok or not. She is an adult and she has to be able to make her own decisions, even if they are mistakes. There's nothing wrong with an ADN program, but there's also nothing wrong with a BSN program and if her dd wants to do a BSN program, let her do it. She would resent being badgered into a ADN program if that wasn't what she wanted. She might cut her mom out of her life because she doesn't want to make it such a fight to have her decisions respected. Her opinion definitely counts, but she cannot make her DD's decision for her.

$$ is a big consideration. Sure we'd all like to give our children the best we can, but maybe she doesn't want to see her child drowning in student loans. Besides, Most employers will pay for BSN once yo are working.

But it doesn't matter if she doesn't want that, if her DD wants it and is ok with it, then that's her choice. If she's old enough to go to nursing school and be making medical decisions and giving care, she's old enough to decide which program she wants to attend. There are scholarships, grants and other things available out there for people who want to attend a BSN program and student loans are not the end of the world.

I truly mean this, without sarcasm. Is this when you let them start making their own decisions? What happens if she defaults on these student loans? I know every child is different, and hopefully you get to know your kids at this point (to some extent) and their level of maturity, responsibility, and self control. I'm 31, and wasn't in that place too long ago. And I look at 25 yr olds and say to myself "where were her parents when she was growing up?" No guidance, no direction --> no $, no education, no husband (with children), dead end jobs... I don't think caring is so wrong. But again, no experience to draw from...

Caring is absolutely not wrong, but when you are arguing with her every night about it, that's wrong and too much. And yes, this is the point where you have to let them go a little. If she defaults on her student loans, then she will have to deal with the consequences. Her mother has raised her for 18+ years, given her guidance, advice and love, and now it's time to see how everything 'took'. You can't live your life through your children, no matter how good the intentions are and how much you are wanting to protect them from making mistakes. Humans learn from experience and sometimes you just have to let go. You don't throw them out on their own in the cold maybe, but this isn't like her daughter is wanting to start doing drugs; she wants to get a 4 year degree instead of a 2 year. This isn't the end of the world!

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Jan 8, 2005

The BSN program at the university is $455.00 per credit hr as opposed to $81.00 at the Jr college. Obviously money is an issue for us, and I do not want her to go into debt.

How much can she afford?

If you are paying the bills, you call the shots.

If she wants to do the BSN, she sure can, but she pays the piper.

(You asked..... :) good luck!)

fiestynurse · Jan 8, 2005

If you are paying the tuition bills, then you do have a say. If it's her money through student loans that she will have to pay back then it's solely her decision. I went directly from High School into a BSN program and have never regreted it. It was a good chose for me.

mariedoreen · Jan 8, 2005

If you are paying the tuition bills, then you do have a say. If it's her money through student loans that she will have to pay back then it's solely her decision. I went directly from High School into a BSN program and have never regreted it. It was a good chose for me.

There's having a say and then there's running the show... For example, OP indicated in an earlier post that they were going to "have her take a college Chem class." It just appears that they are way too wrapped up in what this gal is doing. When our children are in college, we give advice so that they have the benefit of our experience to add to the knowledge base that they are choosing from to make THEIR OWN DECISIONS. She is pursing a career that the parents agree with and is leaning towards a university education in part because medical school is a potential future goal... we don't seem to be talking about an irresponsible young woman here. If the parents are willing to contribute funds then they should contribute the agreed amount. The daughter can come up with the remainder if that is an issue. But to indicate that they are arguing because she thinks the daughter should get work experience sooner rather than later, and have the hospital pay part of her BSN and that she'll have an easier time on the NCLEX if she doesn't have a lot of theory in the way are NOT good reasons to try to STOP her daughter from attending the school of her choice. Again, it's information and advice she can and should put out there for her daughter's consideration... but it's not so vital that the daughter's whole career will be affected by it.

I guess the bottom line is that as parents we know a lot, but none of us ever knows everything there is to know about our child (or any other person for that matter) and their complete wants and needs. When it comes to education and careers we can give advice and an agreed amount of financial support (if any), and then we need to respect our children as the adults they have become and give them our support. You can't and shouldn't attempt to dictate every aspect of their education down to which classes they're going to take.

I apologize if comes across as harsh, it's not intended that way.