Accelerated Masters with no Nursing background

allnurses Guide · Jul 7, 2016

This is the Internet. Opinions are (usually) welcomed. Anyone who trusts an Internet forum for verifiable facts has other issues to address.

I lived this situation first hand. I know what it's like to look for a NP job with no RN experience. I know what my students have experienced. I believe I have some credibility here. I hope OP will not be discouraged by the naysayers.

Over and out.

Bumex, DNP, NP · Jul 8, 2016

This is not something only brought up on AN. All the major nursing organizations are in collective agreement with the data. the NP/Nursing model produces equivalent if not superior outcomes compared to the physician/medical model. Whether it's because we're better listeners or because our model is more effective, i'm not sure, but the outcomes are loud and clear.

I wouldn't go as far to saying that we are superior, but I do believe that we are equivocal in certain areas. I think, especially for primary care, it matters less about MD/DO/PA/NP, and more about the individual. I have met some horrible physicians and PAs in my experience, as well as horrible NPs that I'm shocked passed the NCLEX. If people start to claim NPs are superior, it's just going to be a big chest thumping match. We spend time learning primary care and internal medicine just like any other provider does, but what matters is how much you care about providing the best care for your patients.

People worry to much about labels, in my opinion. Focus on your patients, rather than the letters behind your name.

Vent over.

AAC.271 · Jul 8, 2016

I wouldn't go as far to saying that we are superior, but I do believe that we are equivocal in certain areas. I think, especially for primary care, it matters less about MD/DO/PA/NP, and more about the individual. I have met some horrible physicians and PAs in my experience, as well as horrible NPs that I'm shocked passed the NCLEX. If people start to claim NPs are superior, it's just going to be a big chest thumping match. We spend time learning primary care and internal medicine just like any other provider does, but what matters is how much you care about providing the best care for your patients.
People worry to much about labels, in my opinion. Focus on your patients, rather than the letters behind your name.
Vent over.

i appreciate your sentiments but medicine is evidenced based and the evidence suggests that nps provide not only equal care but superior outcomes. Please do a pubmed search and you will see how I am telling the truth!

elkpark · Jul 8, 2016

i appreciate your sentiments but medicine is evidenced based and the evidence suggests that nps provide not only equal care but superior outcomes. Please do a pubmed search and you will see how I am telling the truth!

If you're going to make a sweeping statement like "nps provide not only equal care but superior outcomes," the onus is on you to provide the documentation if you want anyone to take you seriously. It's not the job of the rest of us to do the research to figure out whether or not your statement is valid.

belljar1995, PhD, RN · Jul 8, 2016

If you're going to make a sweeping statement like "nps provide not only equal care but superior outcomes," the onus is on you to provide the documentation if you want anyone to take you seriously. It's not the job of the rest of us to do the research to figure out whether or not your statement is valid.

Here is one example: a meta-analysis done of 10 years worth of studies (published date 2013) demonstrating that on 11 patient outcomes NPs performed at level or *better* than MDs.

Quality & Effectiveness of Care Provided by NPs -- lead investigator J. Stanik-Hutt -- article published in the Journal of Nurse Practitioners.

I'm not sure why so many of you are so bitter and aggressive on this board--many times...like the OPs statements here above, are completely twisted. There is no reason to have such a chip on one's shoulder and unfortunately I feel this is a huge reason why the nursing profession struggles in so many ways . I realize many times this behavior comes about because the offenders were treated in very much the same way as new nurses--this is no excuse of course, but does help to make the case that we need to do more to mentor new-comers (which does not mean sugar coat things!) in order to turn this field around.

elkpark · Jul 8, 2016

Here is one example: a meta-analysis done of 10 years worth of studies (published date 2013) demonstrating that on 11 patient outcomes NPs performed at level or *better* than MDs.
Quality & Effectiveness of Care Provided by NPs -- lead investigator J. Stanik-Hutt -- article published in the Journal of Nurse Practitioners.
I'm not sure why so many of you are so bitter and aggressive on this board--many times...like the OPs statements here above, are completely twisted. There is no reason to have such a chip on one's shoulder and unfortunately I feel this is a huge reason why the nursing profession struggles in so many ways . I realize many times this behavior comes about because the offenders were treated in very much the same way as new nurses--this is no excuse of course, but does help to make the case that we need to do more to mentor new-comers (which does not mean sugar coat things!) in order to turn this field around.

I hope you're not lumping me in the "bitter and aggressive" category -- my point was only in regard to the other poster making a blanket statement (could be on any topic, not necessarily this one), and telling the rest of us that we should look it up. That's not really how things work.

Susie2310 · Jul 8, 2016

WRONG. Illogical argument.
Nursing education cannot remotely be compared to MD education. MD education includes internship, residency, & Fellowship programs that provide practical experience. Take practical experience away from either a nurse or a doctor and you're left with a half-baked, book-smart, incompetent provider.

I continue to be astounded at the number of nurses who think there's no "qualitative difference" between physicians and nurse practitioners/APN's, and who apparently aren't aware of the hugely more demanding education/training required of physicians versus nurse practitioners/APN's. Why do people fool themselves when the facts can easily be found?: All one needs to do is research physician education/training and nurse practitioner/APN education/training. Wishful thinking is nice, but adults do a reality check.

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2016

I continue to be astounded at the number of nurses who think there's no "qualitative difference" between physicians and nurse practitioners/APN's, and who apparently aren't aware of the hugely more demanding education/training required of physicians versus nurse practitioners/APN's. Why do people fool themselves when the facts can easily be found?: All one needs to do is research physician education/training and nurse practitioner/APN education/training. Wishful thinking is nice, but adults do a reality check.

We are all equally astounded by nurses who don't seem to comprehend outcomes vs education. The PP was discussing outcomes data not length of education.

The OP is looking for career advice not a NPvsMD debate.

msn10 · Jul 8, 2016

whatever it is about your foot that would make you unsafe to be a bedside nurse would also keep you out of nursing school and out of clinicals. I

False.

Getting back to the original OP, you can go to nursing school with a handicap. The school must make every reasonable allowance for you to go to school. It is clearly stated in many disability laws. Our university does this routinely, we have had a number of students with extensive disabilities receive a nursing degree. Notwithstanding the fact that the hospitals also have made numerous accommodations, especially the VA as they have a number of veterans who are disabled that work at the facility. It is best to explore your school's policy on the matter. We are happy to make accommodations as the students who I have in class that have disabilities are very compassionate and understanding of pain and having to approach the world in an alternative way - much like their patients.

msn10 · Jul 8, 2016

belljar1995, if you are in fact a PhD, you should really tell the whole truth with that article. The limitations were very significant and did not differentiate between NP and MD practice

"When assessing attribution of the outcomes to the NP, it was not always clear if the NPs practiced autonomously.^[50,53,62] Conversely, it was apparent that some study protocols restricted NP activities to a narrower scope of practice than is legally authorized.^{[42,57,58,59]} Mirroring the complexities of care today, some protocols used elaborate team interventions that included care from an NP but made it difficult to directly attribute the outcome to the NP exclusively.^[45,57][COLOR=#444444] Sometimes the NP assumed responsibilities that were previously borne by an attending MD, freeing that MD for other activities."[/COLOR]

I go to an NP, love her, respect her, but there are significant limitations to what she can do with regards to healthcare.

If I have a significant issue, I am automatically referred to the MD. MD's like in other NP/CRNA arenas, take the more acute patients. The outcomes can only be the same for the same type of patient. That is not to say that NP's do not provide a much needed service, but we need to understand that they do not have the schooling that an MD has and therefore, their outcomes are different based on their patient populations. Which is fine, that is whom they are designed to treat.[/COLOR][/font]

Wile E Coyote, ASN, RN · Jul 8, 2016

False.
Getting back to the original OP, you can go to nursing school with a handicap. The school must make every reasonable allowance for you to go to school. It is clearly stated in many disability laws. Our university does this routinely, we have had a number of students with extensive disabilities receive a nursing degree. Notwithstanding the fact that the hospitals also have made numerous accommodations, especially the VA as they have a number of veterans who are disabled that work at the facility. It is best to explore your school's policy on the matter. We are happy to make accommodations as the students who I have in class that have disabilities are very compassionate and understanding of pain and having to approach the world in an alternative way - much like their patients.

I agree that an ankle problem could be accommodated by both a school and an employer.

allnurses Guide · Jul 8, 2016

belljar1995, if you are in fact a PhD, you should really tell the whole truth with that article. The limitations were very significant and did not differentiate between NP and MD practice
"When assessing attribution of the outcomes to the NP, it was not always clear if the NPs practiced autonomously.^[50,53,62] Conversely, it was apparent that some study protocols restricted NP activities to a narrower scope of practice than is legally authorized.^{[42,57,58,59]} Mirroring the complexities of care today, some protocols used elaborate team interventions that included care from an NP but made it difficult to directly attribute the outcome to the NP exclusively.^[45,57][COLOR=#444444] Sometimes the NP assumed responsibilities that were previously borne by an attending MD, freeing that MD for other activities."[/COLOR]
I go to an NP, love her, respect her, but there are significant limitations to what she can do with regards to healthcare.
If I have a significant issue, I am automatically referred to the MD. MD's like in other NP/CRNA arenas, take the more acute patients. The outcomes can only be the same for the same type of patient. That is not to say that NP's do not provide a much needed service, but we need to understand that they do not have the schooling that an MD has and therefore, their outcomes are different based on their patient populations. Which is fine, that is whom they are designed to treat.[/COLOR][/font]

We should start a new thread and discuss this because the "limitations" you mention really have very little impact on the validity of the studies when viewed from a population level. They are "talking points" of the AMA that don't really stand up to much scientific scrutiny.