About paying off student loans

[Libby1987]

I completely get the impossibility of paying off 200K for an expensive non marketable degree and not being able to find a job, but I'm not fully understanding the issue with paying off a moderate loan when hired after graduation.

Comparing it to my loan, I graduated with $9,500 in debt and was hired at $10.50/hr. That creeped up of course but I initially made less than 25K/year. Compared to 104K now, that was very little income.

I was the sole earner, paid my rent, had a new but modest car, paid for my two kids (didn't even have maternity benefits on the first (the health insurance industry has never been a bed of roses), had a couple of horses and still paid off my loans in 10 years.

What I don't get is the primary reason why that doesn't work the same for anyone that graduates with student debt that is roughly half of their annual income these days.

I'm sure interest plays a part, but what else?

Do people just resent having to pay them back? They're cramping the new lifestyle norm?

Can someone explain this to me? Am I being dense?

[nursingcat86]

I'm in an ABSN program and working part-time. The maximum you can qualify for is $12,500 per year in federal loans. I work as much as I can, but I still need to cover the gap with private loans, and I don't exactly have negotiating power to get low interest rates. I live a frugal lifestyle, but I'm still going to graduate with a lot of debt.

I think you need to recognize the situation now is not that the same as it was 20 years ago.

[Jules A, MSN]

I think you need to recognize the situation now is not that the same as it was 20 years ago.

How so? Is tuition really that much more expensive now than it was years ago compared to wages? Was the ABSN really the most cost effective option if you aren't able to work too many hours while in school?

[Jules A, MSN]

My interest rates vary- I have some at 3% and some at 10.5%. I have them through both the dept of education as well as through sallie Mae. I'm not sure when exactly my loans will be paid off. I've looked into consolidating them, at a higher interest rate than many of mine are sitting at. It seems REASONABLE that I could pay them off sooner than 25-30 years they're probably at. My largest one through dept of education is 40k, and I'm on a tiered system with a certain number of payments at x amount, then another number of payments at a higher rate. I probably should look into consolidation because it seems silly to stretch it over 30 years when people pay car loans off in 5-6 years for the same amount...

While I think you make a great point about paying them off early why on earth would you even consider consolidating at a higher interest rate?

[nursingcat86]

How so? Is tuition really that much more expensive now than it was years ago compared to wages? Was the ABSN really the most cost effective option if you aren't able to work too many hours while in school?

1. Actually yes - if you are interested in how, here are some sources: (source 1) (source 2) (source 3)

2. For my personal situation, no ABSN wasn't the most cost effective option in that I should have gotten a nursing degree as my first bachelor's, but I didn't realize that until I was halfway through getting a different degree at a college that had no nursing program, so this is how it worked out in my life. But if you look at the sources above, you'll see that even if I did that, "working through school" as in working enough to graduate with no debt is pretty much not possible now.

Not meaning to come off as dismissive/harsh, but this is a topic I'm pretty passionate about.

[kidzcare]

1. Actually yes - if you are interested in how, here are some sources: (source 1) (source 2) (source 3)

Thank you for providing those sources!

[Jules A, MSN]

1. Actually yes - if you are interested in how, here are some sources: (source 1) (source 2) (source 3)

2. For my personal situation, no ABSN wasn't the most cost effective option in that I should have gotten a nursing degree as my first bachelor's, but I didn't realize that until I was halfway through getting a different degree at a college that had no nursing program, so this is how it worked out in my life. But if you look at the sources above, you'll see that even if I did that, "working through school" as in working enough to graduate with no debt is pretty much not possible now.

Not meaning to come off as dismissive/harsh, but this is a topic I'm pretty passionate about.

Thanks for adding the information. Unless I missed something #2 and #3 were largely talking about the cost of student loans. The first source pulled out some apples and oranges, imo, because for example:

"The economic cards are stacked such that today's average college student, without support from financial aid and family resources, would need to complete 48 hours of minimum-wage work a week to pay for his courses—a feat that would require superhuman endurance, or maybe a time machine."

This assumes that all working students are making minimum wage and even so if they worked 30 hours a week the amount of debt would be much less significant.

I'm not saying it isn't tough now but just that it wasn't a walk in the park when I was working 30 hours a week and attending a community college because that was all I could afford without loans.

Edited to add: a local CC here has ADN program 60 credits at $118 per credit hour. I'm sure there are a few other costs but seriously this isn't a large amount of money.

[Libby1987]

I don't know about anywhere else but IF California actually needed more nurses, ASNs and BSNs continue to be offered at affordable rates, especially considering California's nurses broke the 100K ceiling years ago.

[ISingTheBodyElectric]

Jules A,

I hope you take this in the spirit that its offered, but have you maybe considered that there are a lot of nursing students (perhaps the majority) who can't work 30 hours a week, attend full time, and pass their classes / learn enough not to be dangerous? That is, have you considered that perhaps many nursing students (I would guess most) simply don't have what it takes in terms of mental prowess / energy to successfully juggle a nearly full time job and the rigors of full time nursing school? That you may, in fact, be a great deal smarter / more dynamic than most people in nursing programs, and more financially savvy to boot? That passing moral judgement on people with less natural ability for taking out enough loans so that they can chug along at the only pace that works for them is, maybe, a little unfair?

I offer this perspective as someone who worked several semesters as a teaching assistant in anatomy and physiology at a community college. I repeatedly saw students who might have managed a B if they doubled down on their studies, and I would suggest that they come in for open lab times, but they always had work. And as a result, they barely managed C's, and sometimes not even that. Some of these students just weren't serious enough, but many of them were extremely committed to doing well. They just weren't blessed with the ability to read quickly, and had difficulty retaining information unless they went over the subject again and again. And because of their full time jobs, they weren't able to devote the time that THEY needed to succeed. And so they failed. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to march these students over to financial aid and sign them up for as many loans as I could, so that they might have the chance to quit their McJobs and focus on their schooling.

Like a poster above said: this is something I feel strongly about.

[Jules A, MSN]

Jules A,

I hope you take this in the spirit that its offered, but have you maybe considered that there are a lot of nursing students (perhaps the majority) who can't work 30 hours a week, attend full time, and pass their classes / learn enough not to be dangerous? That is, many nursing students (I would guess most) simply don't have what it takes in terms of mental prowess / energy to successfully juggle a nearly full time job and the rigors of full time nursing school? That you may, in fact, be a great deal smarter / more dynamic than most people in nursing programs, and more financially savvy to boot? That passing moral judgement on people with less natural ability for taking out enough loans so that they can chug along at the only pace that works for them is, maybe, a little unfair?

Thanks for writing. For sure I'm definitely not any smarter or dynamic than the average person although I am fairly financially savvy and scrappy both of which came from having to work my butt off for every single thing I have. :)

Seriously though I don't feel as if I'm passing moral judgement and I don't think it is unfair or inappropriate of me to point out the discrepancies when people attempt to justify their choices as "the only way" to have accomplished their goal when in fact there were other options. If someone were to write, and I have seen a few who did, that they weren't interested in working too much while in school, they wanted the quickest route etc. so they took out loans and are happy with the outcome then I could care less. Again its the ones who want to act as if there were no other options and turn up their noses at CC education. Frankly in life there are few instances where there are no other options.

[OCNRN63, RN]

Here is where I have a problem. I am working towards loan forgiveness. My payments are made on-time, every time. I have an impeccable credit rating. Just to tell you how good my credit is, I bought a 50K truck last year at 0% for 72 month. I have no credit card debt. I put 17K a year into my 401K although I will have a pension from my employer along with an annuity to which they contribute 3%. So, because I did my research and learned of the loan forgiveness, I have no morals? I may be taking advantage of a program offered to all, but I bet you that I will not be applying for any help from the government when I retire.

Let me ask you this- do you deduct your student loan interest from your taxes? How many of you took advantage of the tax credit for buying a home several years ago, maximum of $8,000 I think. How many of you take deductions and write offs on your taxes? I do agree with the notion that the younger generation wants it all now. But, how many 40, 50, and 60 year old went out a bought a home between 2006-2008 and ended up foreclosing on it?

I agree with the notion that those who signed on the dotted line should be held accountable. I guess the part I am confused about is the number of repayment options along with deferments and forbearance. No person should ever be in default of a federal student loan.

Why should I, as a taxpayer, get stuck paying for your student loan, when I can't afford to further my education? (Due to serious medical illness, I am no longer able to work.)

You bought a truck for 50K and you're contributing a healthy amount into your 401K. You can afford to honor your obligations.

And I call BS on your statement that you won't accept gov't assistance when you retire. You can't forsee what your circumstances will be like, and it would be the height of idiocy not to accept that which you have paid into, e.g. MC, SS. That's your money.

[Susie2310]

Edited to add: a local CC here has ADN program 60 credits at $118 per credit hour. I'm sure there are a few other costs but seriously this isn't a large amount of money.

Jules A, I don't mean to be rude, but are you bragging or are you just uninformed? Surely you know that $118 per credit hour is a lot of money to many people.

When I attended community college in the late 1980's/early 1990's in order to complete pre-requisites for an ADN program, tuition per credit hour was in the single figures (late 1980's). Tuition continued to rise through my ADN program, and then continued to rise through my BSN program at a state university. The increase in tuition has far outpaced wage increases for most people. In the last 25 years, tuition costs have risen greatly in most states.

[Jules A, MSN]

Jules A, I don't mean to be rude, but are you bragging or are you just uninformed? Surely you know that $118 per credit hour is a lot of money to many people.

I glad you posted to ask but yeah it totally does sound rude. In any event the point I was attempting to make is that for those taking out loans to attend one of my state's universities with a $400 per credit rate or Johns Hopkins ABSN program without misc expenses of $76,940 I would definitely say that $7,080 is not a huge amount of money even for someone without extraordinary means.