About paying off student loans

[Libby1987]

I completely get the impossibility of paying off 200K for an expensive non marketable degree and not being able to find a job, but I'm not fully understanding the issue with paying off a moderate loan when hired after graduation.

Comparing it to my loan, I graduated with $9,500 in debt and was hired at $10.50/hr. That creeped up of course but I initially made less than 25K/year. Compared to 104K now, that was very little income.

I was the sole earner, paid my rent, had a new but modest car, paid for my two kids (didn't even have maternity benefits on the first (the health insurance industry has never been a bed of roses), had a couple of horses and still paid off my loans in 10 years.

What I don't get is the primary reason why that doesn't work the same for anyone that graduates with student debt that is roughly half of their annual income these days.

I'm sure interest plays a part, but what else?

Do people just resent having to pay them back? They're cramping the new lifestyle norm?

Can someone explain this to me? Am I being dense?

[kidzcare]

Thanks for adding the information. Unless I missed something #2 and #3 were largely talking about the cost of student loans. The first source pulled out some apples and oranges, imo, because for example:

"The economic cards are stacked such that today's average college student, without support from financial aid and family resources, would need to complete 48 hours of minimum-wage work a week to pay for his courses—a feat that would require superhuman endurance, or maybe a time machine."

This assumes that all working students are making minimum wage and even so if they worked 30 hours a week the amount of debt would be much less significant.

I'm not saying it isn't tough now but just that it wasn't a walk in the park when I was working 30 hours a week and attending a community college because that was all I could afford without loans.

Edited to add: a local CC here has ADN program 60 credits at $118 per credit hour. I'm sure there are a few other costs but seriously this isn't a large amount of money.

How is comparing the cost of a state university then to now apples to oranges?

Comparing the cost of state university then to CC now is more apples to oranges. What was the cost of CC then compared to now? Has it kept on track with inflation and cost of living?

[Libby1987]

How is comparing the cost of a state university then to now apples to oranges?

Comparing the cost of state university then to CC now is more apples to oranges. What was the cost of CC then compared to now? Has it kept on track with inflation and cost of living?

Public education has risen about the same rate as nursing wages in California, except now we have much lower mortgage rates.

Northern California CSU 4 yrs tuition approx $7,200 in the 80's and $25,000 now.

Starting wages in the area $12/hr in the 80's and low 40's now.

It's higher but so is everything else, except for mortgage rates. House for 50K at 12-16% then and 200K at 3-4% now.

50K house at 13% (which was an amazing rate back then) on 12/hr with an 8K student loan were not as easy times as some are making it out to be.

I rented shabby houses for 10 yrs paying off my loan back then, I live more frugally back then on my nursing income than my kids and their friends live now. Hands down more frugally, we didn't have anything back then. Getting a VCR player was a big deal, a Christmas present sort of thing, not on the way home from a Costco trip.

[kidzcare]

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how to get a pic to show up in my response.

I won't post 1000 links, but there is so much information about how the cost of college tuition has far surpassed the rate of inflation.

Change of Subject: More college tuition inflation

Oh, it did attach... Yay!

[Libby1987]

Is that a California graph? I'm pretty sure it's not.

[kidzcare]

Is that a California graph? I'm pretty sure it's not.

I believe it is for the US as a whole.

[Susie2310]

I would definitely say that $7,080 is not a huge amount of money even for someone without extraordinary means.

The reality is that even community college ADN tuition, when you add in the purchase of text books and other fees, is not affordable without loans/financial help for many people.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

and is probably very hard to get into.

Thanks for adding the information. Unless I missed something #2 and #3 were largely talking about the cost of student loans. The first source pulled out some apples and oranges, imo, because for example:

"The economic cards are stacked such that today's average college student, without support from financial aid and family resources, would need to complete 48 hours of minimum-wage work a week to pay for his courses—a feat that would require superhuman endurance, or maybe a time machine."

This assumes that all working students are making minimum wage and even so if they worked 30 hours a week the amount of debt would be much less significant.

I'm not saying it isn't tough now but just that it wasn't a walk in the park when I was working 30 hours a week and attending a community college because that was all I could afford without loans.

Edited to add: a local CC here has ADN program 60 credits at $118 per credit hour. I'm sure there are a few other costs but seriously this isn't a large amount of money.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

Perhaps they didn't belong in nursing then...

Jules A,

I hope you take this in the spirit that its offered, but have you maybe considered that there are a lot of nursing students (perhaps the majority) who can't work 30 hours a week, attend full time, and pass their classes / learn enough not to be dangerous? That is, have you considered that perhaps many nursing students (I would guess most) simply don't have what it takes in terms of mental prowess / energy to successfully juggle a nearly full time job and the rigors of full time nursing school? That you may, in fact, be a great deal smarter / more dynamic than most people in nursing programs, and more financially savvy to boot? That passing moral judgement on people with less natural ability for taking out enough loans so that they can chug along at the only pace that works for them is, maybe, a little unfair?

I offer this perspective as someone who worked several semesters as a teaching assistant in anatomy and physiology at a community college. I repeatedly saw students who might have managed a B if they doubled down on their studies, and I would suggest that they come in for open lab times, but they always had work. And as a result, they barely managed C's, and sometimes not even that. Some of these students just weren't serious enough, but many of them were extremely committed to doing well. They just weren't blessed with the ability to read quickly, and had difficulty retaining information unless they went over the subject again and again. And because of their full time jobs, they weren't able to devote the time that THEY needed to succeed. And so they failed. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to march these students over to financial aid and sign them up for as many loans as I could, so that they might have the chance to quit their McJobs and focus on their schooling.

Like a poster above said: this is something I feel strongly about.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

The reality is that even community college ADN tuition, when you add in the purchase of text books and other fees, is not affordable without loans/financial help for many people.

then perhaps, they need to work and save BEFORE they go to college. rent a room, studio maybe, get a roommate, etc. then go to college.

[Susie2310]

then perhaps, they need to work and save BEFORE they go to college. rent a room, studio maybe, get a roommate, etc. then go to college.

Since you are just one person, with your own particular life circumstances, how can you possibly generalize about what other people, with their own particular life circumstances, should or should not do?

[kidzcare]

then perhaps, they need to work and save BEFORE they go to college. rent a room, studio maybe, get a roommate, etc. then go to college.

This is not always feasible, it could only apply to a portion of potential students.

When I went to college, I had 3 young children and a (now ex) spouse who spent money like it was on fire.

[Not_A_Hat_Person, RN]

then perhaps, they need to work and save BEFORE they go to college. rent a room, studio maybe, get a roommate, etc. then go to college.

And what kind of job can you get with a high school education that would allow you to do that, especially in places with a high cost of living, like California? Don't forget that if you're under 25, all financial aid is based on your parents' income and assets, even if you don't live with them and they provide no financial support.