Nurses General Nursing
Published Dec 9, 2006
h.r.6420 title: to amend the internal revenue code of 1986 to impose an excise tax on certain medical care providers that fail to provide a minimum level of charity medical care, and for other purposes. sponsor: rep thomas, william m. [ca-22] (introduced 12/8/2006) cosponsors (none) latest major action: 12/8/2006 referred to house committee. status: referred to the house committee on ways and means.
title: to amend the internal revenue code of 1986 to impose an excise tax on certain medical care providers that fail to provide a minimum level of charity medical care, and for other purposes.
sponsor: rep thomas, william m. [ca-22] (introduced 12/8/2006) cosponsors (none)
latest major action: 12/8/2006 referred to house committee. status: referred to the house committee on ways and means.
search results - thomas (library of congress)::
the text of the bill has not been published yet, but this looks like one more step towards universal health care. what do you think?
fiestynurse
921 Posts
This bill is just another Bandaid fix - it doesn't solve the real problem and move us any closer to a better health care system. We are basically paying for universal health care and not getting it. When a Provider (Hospital, Clinic, Doctor) has to provide a certain amount of charity work for the uninsured or underprivileged - those costs get passed on to the people who are insured and do pay for their health care. We all pay for the charity care!
The system could be much more efficient and save us millions of dollars. A single-payer system, such as Canada's, is the way to go.
Canada's Health Care Lauded by One Who Knows
by Sol Littman
Ever since my wife and I chose to leave Canada and settle in Tucson, we have been amazed and angered by the distortions and misrepresentations in the American media of Canada's government-funded, one-payer medical system. Among them is the recent op-ed article in the Arizona Daily Star by Dr. Jane M. Orient.
For most of my adult life, I worked as a journalist in Canada and took full advantage of Canada's health-care system. My wife, daughter and grandchildren were free to choose their own primary doctors and specialists. Service was consistently kindly, prompt and concerned. If something serious was suspected, we were tested, X-rayed and examined in a matter of days. Our physicians were highly trained and the hospital facilities modem and pleasant.
Thirty years ago, I had my gall bladder removed and had to spend three or four days in hospital. When I was discharged, I was presented with the bill-a total of $5.50 for the use of the television set in my semi-private room. The Ontario Hospital Insurance Plan paid the rest.
It is important for Americans to know that people in Canada tend to live a couple of years longer than their U.S. counterparts and that Canada's infant mortality rate is lower. This is attributed to the fact that everyone-young, old, working or unemployed-is covered for basic hospital and medical care in Canada without co-insurance or deductibles. This is in contrast to the United States, where there are more uninsured people (over 40 million) than Canadian inhabitants.
American critics of Canada's health care are quick to cite the fact that there are lengthy waiting lists for non-emergency medical procedures. It is also true that there is considerable overcrowding in some hospitals, but this is due to the fact that emergencies are treated immediately even if it means a lineup of gurneys in the hospital corridor-a situation I have found exists in American emergency wards as well.
The Canadian system does not rely on private insurance companies. The system is run by 10 provinces and two territories. They pay the bills and set the rules. Medicare, which services the American elderly, is the closest approximation to the Canadian one-payer system, but there are important differences.
In the United States, the government pays the bills but private insurance companies that are more wasteful than the government run the system. In addition, some of our American health-care dollars go to make the insurance companies rich and play no role in actual health care.
The waiting times for some procedures are longer in Canada than in the United States, but this problem is being actively tackled by the government in the wake of a Canada Supreme Court decision that "access to a waiting list is not access to health care." However, the decision did not abolish the one-payer system-in fact, it reinforced it by giving the Quebec government, which was the chief object of the lawsuit, 12 months to remedy the situation.
As a result, Quebec is working hard to catch up with the rest of Canada. The average wait for a hip replacement has been reduced to four to five weeks, and knee replacements usually take six to seven weeks. This may still be too long, but if you happen to be one of the 40 million uninsured Americans, you might have to wait forever.
Why have my wife and I chosen to spend our retirement years in Tucson? We did, in fact, worry about leaving behind our Canadian health care, but climate, the availability of year-round golf and relatively good health persuaded us to take the chance.
We have found medical services in Tucson excellent, but expensive and complicated. We don't like being at the mercy of an HMO and have yet to decipher the ins and outs of the new drug plan. We continue to long for the simplicity and efficiency of Canada's single-payer system.
augigi, CNS
1,366 Posts
I agree with the above post's quoted article - I'm in Australia and it's all very simple with universal healthcare (although the government "encourages" people to take out additional private health cover by way of an additional medicare tax if you don't). I am completely baffled by the HMO/PPO/copay/deductible system!
outcomesfirst, BSN, RN
148 Posts
you think that state or federal agencies should take the place of private insurers? imo, except for national defense, minting money, building highways and running police forces, there isn't anything the government can do better than the free market.
imo, except for national defense, minting money, building highways and running police forces, there isn't anything the government can do better than the free market.
the empirical data is there. u.s. citizens spent $5,267 per capita for health care in 2002—53 percent more than any other country (gerard f. anderson, peter s. hussey, bianca k. frogner and hugh r. waters, 2005). health spending equaled 14.6 percent of u.s. gdp in 2002. only two other countries, switzerland and germany, spent more than 10 percent of their gdp on health care. international data on quality that exist—life expectancy and infant mortality statistics—place the united states in the bottom quartile of industrialized countries. population surveys have shown that the extra spending is probably not buying better experiences with the health care system, with the exception of shorter waits for non-urgent surgery. (peter s. hussey, gerard f. anderson, robin osborn, colin feek, vivienne mclaughlin, john millar, and arnold epstein 2004) the united states pays much higher prices than other countries for pharmaceuticals, hospital stays, and physician visits – these costs are all ultimately paid for by the tax payer through the cost shifting system developed to - wait for it – pay for care of the uninsured. an unexpected benefit of employer based insurance (a wwii incentive) and medicare (an initiative to help the elderly and the economy) was that health care organizations and physicians now had steady, guaranteed streams of income – and we were off to the races. incomes soared, individuals interested (venture capitalists) in profits began to invest in health care, and being a physician was becoming seriously profitable. universal health care in the us is long overdue to hard working people, basic human decency requires we provide it. using revenues to provide care, rather than a source of income is the imperative now and for the future of the united states. there is nothing wrong with profits or making money –just not at the expense of lives. what we need is basic system that immunizes every child; that anyone who needs an antibiotic gets one; that unclogs ers, that ensures a car accident does not wipe out a middle class family financially and so on. yes, choices will have to be made – do we build a new plastic surgery center or a new primary care office? do we keep patients on ventilators for 2 months, or do we accept terminal illness? hard, but necessary decisions - irrespective of payor source. health care for the masses must become what is necessary – education, prevention and treatment, not what is desired and not as a source of profits. as a nation and as individuals we must find other sources of individual revenue and wealth building. we must support healthcare education for all professions – money must stop being an obstacle to a career as a nurse, physician, or researcher and greed must not be a motivator to enter health professions. if that means an individual must wait 4 weeks for knee surgery – so be it. of course the government must run this program – our ‘government’ is why we live in the greatest country on earth.
again, i am not sure what this new hr bill is and cannot make a decision about it with out the facts, but surely the available data tells us we must do something. change is incremental, perhaps this will be a first step.
GardenDove
962 Posts
i just want to point that the life expectancy in canada is higher than that in the united states. top 10 countries listed below.
1.andorra 83.52.san marino 81.7 singapore 81.74.japan 81.25.australia 80.5 sweden 80.5 switzerland 80.58.iceland 80.39.canada 80.210.italy 79.8
Here is a complete table, click on the link. The United States does beat Paraquay by 3 years, I'm happy to report. We are on par with Portugal, Spain beats us by 2 years, UK also beats us, in spite of their 'inferior' healthcare system.
Life Expectancy Country Comparison Table - Yahoo! Education
In nursing these days, we hear so much about 'evidence based' research, etc, ad nauseum. Anyone care to refute the cold hard facts that our Healthcare system is not delivering the goods? It's expensive and inefficient, giving a false sense of personal autonomy that Americans so cherish.
jyoung1950
157 Posts
You say that the Canadian government pays for your health care costs? How do they get that money to pay for your health care.
Multicollinearity, BSN, RN
3,119 Posts
My Canadian relatives are happier with their healthcare compared to my American relatives. I have a large extended family that is in both countries. Anecdotal, I know...but still. They think we are silly and pigheaded for relying upon our employers for health insurance, paying more per person, and having 45 million uninsured. They pay less per person, cover everyone, and have better overall outcomes (life expectancy, infant mortality). It really is screwy if you think about it. Why do we rely upon employers for health insurance? It got started in the mid 1900's when companies wanted tax breaks for offering certain benefits to employees.
So you think you can go get insurance on your own and pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, government is bad, blah blah blah? Good luck with that. I was a health insurance broker for 10 years. Less than 25% of people who try to get health insurance on their own are able to qualify for policies without exclusions for pre-existing conditions. Many are simply declined coverage altogether. It's not that the health insurance companies are evil, because actually they aren't. It's just that the healthy people out there are going without insurance and it's the ultra-responsible or those with health problems that show up wanting to buy health insurance. It's like towing the car that you just totalled to a State Farm office and saying "I'd like to get insurance now." It doesn't work that way. The entire system of private healthcare funding is broken and wasteful.
Does anyone know about the system in Switzerland? I'd like to learn more about their system of healthcare funding. They do in fact use private companies to administer it, but it is universal coverage in nature.
ZASHAGALKA, RN
3,322 Posts
I propose that we amend the Internal Revenue Code to eliminate the Internal Revenue Code.
Socialism is always more inefficient and always costs more. There are more costs issues at play in any system than price.
Canada's system marginally works in large part because they have the U.S. as an outlet. Where are Americans going to go for that outlet? Mexico?
Where is the world going to go for the next great drug when socialists manage to shut our production pipelines?
You can point to life expectancy tables all you want. WHO relies on self reporting. If the U.S. reports every baby that dies as a death, from say 26 weeks on, but other nations only count from say, 38 weeks forward, you have a wonderful statistic that bears no resemblance to reality.
Besides, Americans eat and exercise much less than several other nations. Those statistics speak much more about our LIFESTYLE choices then they do our HEALTHCARE availability.
This constant notion of theft by redistribution is a defeated idea, one, as President Reagan so eloquently stated, that is destined for the ash heaps of history.
It isn't charity, either in name or deed.
~faith,
Timothy.
pickledpepperRN
4,491 Posts
It is our moral obligation.
YouTube - "The Healthcare Solution: California OneCare"
tgb3rn
116 Posts
I only have this to say. I work two full time jobs and still can not afford health insurance at the hospital where I work. It costs me $600.00 a month for family coverage. I only make $17hr --rural middle of nowhere pay. This is INSANE!!!!!
I don't like the government involved in everything but SOMETHING has to change.
Great thoughts from everyone - this really is an issue that must be addressed. I encourage everyone to get informed,find the data and read it yourself. Be aware of blanket statements without references, always go to the source and develop your own opinion. The internet has made this so much easier now. Below is a great link for US health data, does anyone know of a site for aggregate international data?
N C H S - Publications and Information Products - Series 10, Number 221 to Present
Also - I have found the Australian Health System very interesting - its a hybrid public/private situation. Here is a link Australian Health Care Agreements
You have to dig around abit, but well worth it.
Cheers to all, great discussion!
