I was surprised to hear an aquaintance of my family was a diploma nurse. I just assumed she had a degree (not that it makes any difference to me), but she was telling me that a diploma nurse ranked higher than an ADN on the nursing food chain. The also said that programs still exist where you can get a diploma in nursing, but its very rare (I guess you have to know the secret password or something :) )
She often looks down on me because I am "just an ADN" and that she outranks me (not to mention she has 20 years experience on me) but I think a lot of this has to do with my aunt blabbing to her what my salary is (which makes hers look really, really small). Nevermind the fact that she works in little community hospital and I work in a Level 1 trauma center. She's just a miserable woman who cheats on her husband...and wants everyone else to be unhappy as well (we refer to her as the "Human Quaalude"
So, I'm confused about the Diploma nurse thing. I worked with a Diploma nurse (and she is one of the best nurses I know), and she said that to her knowledge, no such programs existed anymore and the DN's were grandfathered in when they required degrees. I was also under the impression that a DN was the same as an ADN...just without the degree. Can anyone clarify this for me???
I am so glad to see this thread! I have a BA (English and Education) and plan to start a hospital base nursing program in January. I had to take A&P 1&2, statistics, micro, and chemistry prior to starting the RN program. The program is 23 months and has over 1000 clinical hours. It's NCLEX pass rate is 100%. The program costs $10,000--which is much cheaper than the university and one of the reasons I'm going there. My question is "Will I be able to advance into management or teach nursing with my Rn + BA? " Thanks in advance for any info/advice you can pass my way!
Its so nice to see someone with a similar background wondering the same thing. Thanks for asking the question. Did you have difficulty getting a straight answer on whether or not you could wring any credit out of your BA? I mention BA and I get this blank look. I assumed four years of college would account for something but guess not. I thought maybe with one more year I could convert it to a BSN but it turns out I have to do three years to get just an ADN, and that's from my old school. That quote about the six most important words you'll hear as a BA is "Would you like fries with that?" was pretty good. :) It's too bad because BA's are good at handling the volume of reading and writing required in nursing school. You're lucky to find a diploma program near where you live. That's why I'm considering Excelsior. Just considering at this point. My main objective is to work this LPN thing at a hospital in another state, if I have to, to get the hospital experience. Stay in touch. It's good to hear someone out there like me. P.S. You know you're in trouble as an English major when you are discussing the protagonist in the Scarlett Letter and the other person thinks you mean Scarlet O'Hara. A true conversation. Sigh.
Its so nice to see someone with a similar background wondering the same thing. Thanks for asking the question. Did you have difficulty getting a straight answer on whether or not you could wring any credit out of your BA? I mention BA and I get this blank look. I assumed four years of college would account for something but guess not. I thought maybe with one more year I could convert it to a BSN but it turns out I have to do three years to get just an ADN, and that's from my old school. That quote about the six most important words you'll hear as a BA is "Would you like fries with that?" was pretty good. :) It's too bad because BA's are good at handling the volume of reading and writing required in nursing school. You're lucky to find a diploma program near where you live. That's why I'm considering Excelsior. Just considering at this point. My main objective is to work this LPN thing at a hospital in another state, if I have to, to get the hospital experience. Stay in touch. It's good to hear someone out there like me. P.S. You know you're in trouble as an English major when you are discussing the protagonist in the Scarlett Letter and the other person thinks you mean Scarlet O'Hara. A true conversation. Sigh.
Yes, it really stinks that the years of effort don't account for much in the nursing world (I was a history major before I seriously got into nursing and all those history classes I took won't count for squat. To be honest, if I had a choice it would be history over nursing except with my family I need a job that requires more than a paper hat :chuckle ... )
There are no diploma programs in the state I live in (last one shut down a few years ago)
and the ADN programs will give you no credit for your previous experience as an LPN (would have to do the WHOLE thing) so we are having to move over 400 miles west to Little Rock, Arkansas (at least I will have family in the area). As I mentioned before this is a program for LPNs to become RNs in a year, though I have been told it is very hard. I also found out this diploma program carries a little bit higher standard than the ADN programs here though, I am struggling through a chemistry and nutrition course at the university this semester,(thank goodness I took sociology and psychology already). It still works out better timewise to do the diploma thing.
I know some nurses who went through Excelsior (my instructors at the vo-tech happened to be Excelsior ADN graduates! Not saying I think we got superior instruction because of it, but here in rural Tennessee they pretty much take what they can get.) I also know some LPNs who have been studying through Excelsiors for years. I tried to take a course through Excelsior but could not get the hang of home study.
And I do know what you mean about the nursing homes being depressing. In the nursing home you are fighting a losing battle with those patients, and it only makes it hard when you get attached to one and they die. But the nursing home where I work has its share of good times, too. I work with some good people and we never seem to be lacking those residents who can make you laugh.
It's such a mess in nursing education. These problems have been around so long. Look up Esther Lucile Brown and see what she recommended almost 60 years ago. Then look up the Flexner Report and see what medicine did almost a century ago. And how is medicine doing today? Better than nursing. Yakking about it does not count for much. Action is what takes guts and we do not have it. Usually when someone makes a move in the right direction, people get upset a begin acting to protect their turf. True professionalism mandates that we get one entry level and that should be in university settings and advanced degree preparation.
LadyMadonna--there is a diploma program left in Tennessee, but it will be closing in the next year or so. I just graduated from the program December 2003.
LadyMadonna--there is a diploma program left in Tennessee, but it will be closing in the next year or so. I just graduated from the program December 2003.
Diploma programs still going strong here. At least 7 within 50 miles of me. :)
LadyMadonna--there is a diploma program left in Tennessee, but it will be closing in the next year or so. I just graduated from the program December 2003.
I contacted that hospital in Memphis. They had told me they were not accepting applicants for the diploma program anymore because it was closing down.
It's such a mess in nursing education. These problems have been around so long. Look up Esther Lucile Brown and see what she recommended almost 60 years ago. Then look up the Flexner Report and see what medicine did almost a century ago. And how is medicine doing today? Better than nursing. Yakking about it does not count for much. Action is what takes guts and we do not have it. Usually when someone makes a move in the right direction, people get upset a begin acting to protect their turf. True professionalism mandates that we get one entry level and that should be in university settings and advanced degree preparation.
I am a hospital prepared diploma RN who trained for a blue collar job, makes good blue collar money (about $100K/yr with OT opportunities and special work agreements), is happy on my feet for 12 hours a night in the ICU, is as proficient at wiping bottoms and making beds as running an IABP (or all at once!), demands and gets a collegial relationship with all on the team, and has learned and honed my skill every day of the 28 years since I was graduated. I never go home clean, my scrubs are too full of my job to wear in my car, my shoes never walk in my house.
What master's prepared nurse will do my job? How many master's prepared nurses do my job now? Let's get real, I have learned my skills by my own drive, I have respect because I have earned it, I am part of the team because I insist on being part of the team. It's an internal thing, not a piece of paper. And the work is hard work (and important work), ask anyone who is in the first year out of school.
Nurses don't need more external anything, we need to get off our collective behinds and become political activists in our own cause. Start by reading the threads in the political forums on Allnurses. Don't fail to know the candidates (especially locally), vote and make sure your elected officials know how you feel about issues important to you and to nursing.
Do not mistake the edge of the rut for the horizon!
I contacted that hospital in Memphis. They had told me they were not accepting applicants for the diploma program anymore because it was closing down.
Hi LadyMadonna, It's been awhile since I've had a chance to look at this thread. Dang about that program. Any more news? PS I just had the Beatles (?) tune Lady Madonna children at your feet, wondering why you cant make ends meet (or something like that) run through my head. Did I guess the reason for the screen name? As for mine, its always just me and my cat when I sit at the computer (or the 'puter' as he calls it. He steps across the keys every once in a while.) :) Hope you've made some progress. At least you can move, I am stuck, stuck, stuck, wondering what I'm gonna do. Again, good luck.
It's such a mess in nursing education. These problems have been around so long. Look up Esther Lucile Brown and see what she recommended almost 60 years ago. Then look up the Flexner Report and see what medicine did almost a century ago. And how is medicine doing today? Better than nursing. Yakking about it does not count for much. Action is what takes guts and we do not have it. Usually when someone makes a move in the right direction, people get upset a begin acting to protect their turf. True professionalism mandates that we get one entry level and that should be in university settings and advanced degree preparation.
I agree that the Flexner report had a dramatic effect on medicine, and medical education in this country. However, I think the "golden age" of medicine has passed--having risen in the 50s and 60s peaked in the 70s and 80s (or so) and has been on a downward slant since then. Reason? Primarily managed care; secondarily, malpractice. I considered medicine about 10 years ago (took the MCAT), but even then it was clear that many docs were taking huge cuts in pay. Nope, the glory years for the docs were in the past; by the time you factor in the years without pay while in school and the educational loans, malpractice insurance and reduced re-imbursement due to managed care and reduced reimbursement from medicare/medicaid...I'm not sure they are doing all that much better than nurses in terms of lifetime earnings (just a guess; I have not actually done an analysis)...(at least in California. It used to be that Northern California, where I live, was a physician-mecca. But now they can get paid nearly the same to live in areas where the cost of living is not so high--and so that's where they go...although California has done good things for docs' malpractice insurance.)
Oh yeah...and then, of course, there are turf wars. Used to be that you had to have an MD to rx meds. Now all sorts of folks can rx: PAs, NPs, CNSs' (?) etc., etc. Just like there are now Nurse Anesthetists and even Nurse First Assistants (surgery)--and, in fact, there are about 4 schools where you can train to be a First Assistant without being either an RN or an MD.
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traumaRUs, MSN, APRN
87 Articles; 21,288 Posts
There are many combined MSN/MBA programs out there too that combine the nursing with the business degree part.