A personal NP vs PA debate

sunshine0509 · Aug 23, 2009

2.4 GPA you would need alot of work to get into PA

ADN is probably you best/only choice

get stellar grades their then debate the PA/NP route

The PA vs. NP debate has been done many times on here..their is a sticky or do a search you will get a lot of information

One thread was just killed two days ago..so if you want a more recent debate head over the the PA forum maybe they'll hash it out again

Bonosgrrl · Aug 23, 2009

with a 2.4 gpa i am not sure any msn program will take you. and the next thing is you have to already be an rn or have met that educational requirement to become an NP.

you could enter an RN to MSN fast track program if you can get accepted. but you cannot go straight into grad school for nursing without already having a bsn.

the NP program is not easy, don't be fooled into thinking it is. NP students come from a nursing background, most NPs who go thru acute care NP programs are Rn who have worked in acute care.

I am sure someone else will chime in with more info.

if being a PA is what you want I say go for it now :)

Renny03 · Aug 23, 2009

I'm fully aware of the routes to becoming either field. I'm not looking to pursue a DE MSN program. I'm looking to do an ADN, work as an RN while completing a RN-BSN program, then look into the MSN.

I'm not saying the MSN program is easy. No master's level program is easy in any field. I'm just not seeing how the curriculum correlates to clinical practice, or it at least seemas though it could correlate better.

I plan to get a 4.0 in the ADN program. It is a very feasible option for me. The few science classes I have taken (gen chem I, gen bio I, anatomy, physiology) have been high As and were fairly easy (maybe because I was interested). I took them at UT-Austin.

I realize the PA/NP debate has been done to death. I'm very well aware of the differences between them and I am not looking for someone to explain them to me. I'm looking for some advice and guidance on what I personally should do given my situation, background, and future plans.

Bonosgrrl · Aug 23, 2009

ok, then start taking the classes you need to get into an ADN program, get all A's, get your ADN work as an RN, get a BSN or go into a fast track RN to MSN program.

I don't know what NP program you are looking into but the one I went thru had advanced in depth A&P, pharm, etc, I didn't take anything like financial policy and planning. so maybe it depends on the program you go thru.

also regarding the DNP, there are programs that are focused on clinical practice.

the grandfather question I can't answer, but I suspect by the time you do an ADN program and work as an RN getting to an MSN program, you may need the DNP.

Editorial Team / Admin · Aug 23, 2009

...getting married in October, and my soon to be husband has a great job in Austin that he doesn't want to leave. By the time I would be able to start PA shool we would want to start a family and I just don't know if that will work out.

Looks like you've kind of answered your own question about which program to do.

If I do the MSN, will I be grandfathered in (if it is before 2015)?

Yes.

IMO? You need to research more on NP and possibly speak, in real life, with one and/or shadow one if you can.

Good luck with whatever you decide. And, congratulations on your up and coming marriage.

elkpark · Aug 24, 2009

If you want to be a PA, do what you have to do to become a PA.

JDCitizen · Aug 24, 2009

If you want to be a PA, do what you have to do to become a PA.

I agree with elkpark... It looks like you have invested more time into researching the PA route. You need to do what needs to be done.

Renny03 · Aug 24, 2009

But is it worth the risk of potentially upsetting my future husband's great job, relocating my family, delaying our plans, or even worse, not getting in at all?

I'm trying to figure out if If would be happy in the NP role, considering what my future goals are for a career. I have been doing some research in the field and, like I said, I do have a CNS and CRNA in the family. There is also an NP who worksin GI and floats around the entire hospital who I have talked to some.

I see a lot of NPs working in EM and Trauma. Is this a common thing for NPs to do? Do they have the FNP or ACNP background? If you do the RNFA also, is it common for NPs to first assist in the OR as well?

zenman · Aug 24, 2009

First off, it seems as though the NP programs have a lot of non non/clinical coursework and I don't understand how a class in "financial policy and planning" will make me a better clinical provider. Wouldn't it be better suited to get rid of those non clinical/science classes and replace them with classes that are more related to treating patients?

It might help you understand your place in the health care system and how you can better care for your patients, all who might be wondering whether to take their kids to the doctor or to eat that day. Non science courses (liberal arts) make you...tell you what...go talk to the liberal arts dept...otherwise you'll wind up like a thoracic surgeon in my MBA class who told me he was worthless outside the OR. :smokin:

Renny03 · Aug 24, 2009

it might help you understand your place in the health care system and how you can better care for your patients, all who might be wondering whether to take their kids to the doctor or to eat that day. non science courses (liberal arts) make you...tell you what...go talk to the liberal arts dept...otherwise you'll wind up like a thoracic surgeon in my mba class who told me he was worthless outside the or.

i have a bachelor's degree in the liberal arts. i've taken so many classes in liberal art and i am so ready to be done with that. i've taken so many classes in art, music, philosphy, social work, psychology, sociology, etc...

i'm not like your typical premed who has a degree in the sciences and that is all he or she has ever done.

i googled a random program and this is 6 of the 13 classes in their "core" curriculum:

how are some of these classs going to make me a better clinial provider, considering i have an extensive background in ethics and philosphy as well as taking 12 credit hours in accounting/finance for personal knowledge/gain? maybe i am missing something. i have no intent of owning my own practice or anything like that.

couldn't i replace my teaching/learning and finance courses with something more relevant to clinical practice, such as advanced gross antomy or genetics?

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[color=#004388]nurs 444bhealth care delivery, legal and ethical issues in advanced practice: finance

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[color=#004388]nurs 444chealth care delivery, legal and ethical issues in advanced practice: policy and legal

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i'm not meaning to be rude or offensive to anyone. i am jus trying to learn. every np i have talked to thought that every course they took prepared them clinically and talked about how indepth it went into the sciences and clinicals. i'm just not seeing it in the curriculum posted on the websites, so i am hoping to learn more than what an np will say in passing and what school websites state.

ksc0723 · Aug 24, 2009

I understand your plight. I wanted to go to medical school, thought I wasn't smart enough, got a BS and MS in psychology. Still thought of med school, PA school etc. I didn't go to med school because I was not willing to take the chance of not getting in and having gone through 2+ years for prereq's in addition to the 6 years already spent in school. Plus, I have a lot of debt from the master's degree I will never use in a career. I thought about PA as well, but again school is expensive, you absolutely cannot work in PA school, and since I changed my career after getting two degrees without working a day in the field after school, I needed to find a quick route to make money and have job security. I am finishing up my last two semesters in an associate's degree nursing program. I am not going to lie. Nursing is not my passion, I don't want to be a nurse past a few years before I go on to be a PA, but I love healthcare and this gives me the opportunity to get a good solid clinical and educational base and money to save for what I really want to do..be a PA. It's the second best choice to med school and I here you about the DNP and what appears to be less clinical hours during the program and not a whole lot of science based classes required by PA school. I work with a ton of NP's and have asked repeatedly when on the fence NP or PA and a most have said I should go PA versus NP because they feel the science base is essential and they felt like they took a ton of "fluff" courses in their NP degree. You cannot work in PA school because it is so demanding and intense, yet one of the perks of NP programs, even full-time, is you can often work at least part-time if not more while finishing the degree.

Don't even get me started on the DNP program. The creation of that thing is what prompted me to turn the other direction and go for PA. I have been on the fence for a few years between PA and NP and was leaning more toward NP because I would have the RN and it would be an easy and smooth transition. Now with that degree in the works, my decision to not pursue an NP was solidified. I would do one of two things if I were you: 1st enroll in a program that will allow you to take classes necessary to meet the prereq's for PA school and do as amazing as you can in them. In the meantime, find PA schools and call the admissions counselors and ask what you can do to improve your GPA or application etc that is why they are there. OR, get the associate's degree in nursing so you can take the classes for PA prereq's as you go and you will get great experience to put on a resume. If you want to be a PA you will not be happy as an NP in terms of the education. PA's are trained in the medical model and NP's in the nursing model research both to dicover their differences and which approach suits you. I have tried to convince myself of this. I have been on forums for 4 years researching this stuff and my main concern for going NP is getting too many courses that have nothing to do with patient care and not enough clinical hours. I don't have the desire to wste any time or money on classes that are not absolutely essential to mu role as a mid-level or are classes teaching me stuff my prior education already has. I have researched PA programs all over and they are very science intensive and heavy on the clinical hours. Like you, I have taken enough psych/sociology/philosophy/ethics/diversity etc classes to choke a small horse. I want the science background and of the multiple NP programs I have researched they are very light in them compared to PA programs. It sounds like you are looking for the same type of education I am and will not be satisfied unless that is what you do. You are young (I am 29) not much older but in your twenties wasting even 3-5 years can be a huge mistake. I won't be finally starting a career as a full-time nurse until I am almost 30 and then I still have 2-3 classes to take for PA prereq's before I would even start a program. Plus, trying to have a young family when you are in the middle of all of this is really difficult. I don't even have children just a husband and I am ridiculously busy. If I were you I would hold off on the kids until you have your career set or at least the schooling done for the career. But, then again if you are going to borrown any money for either education, it is smarter to work for a few years to pay of some of that debt and then start a family. That is a lot of lost years of earning potential and even more debt for two degrees I am not and will not be getting paid for. (But they look good on paper and I learned a great deal from my experience that will aide me greatly when working with patients). So go for it and pursue the career you know you want. Don't waste time trying to take a back road or side street so your journey will be faster. You will only end up disappointed. You may have to work harder than others and for longer to get there but you will get there.

I apologize if I seem a little too personal about you shoudl do with your life. It is just that I am speaking from my personal experience and if I were your age, just out of a bachelor's program there is so much I would have don differently. It is really hard the more independent and older you become because responsibility only increases. I see why people do all of their schooling and start careers in their mid to late 20's because it is difficult juggling all of this and trying to go back to school full-time. You feel like I need to get to my goal as soon as possible and I have already wasted some time and so forth. I am going to have to work as a nurse for a few years at least to gain an income and savings so I can not borrow money when I go back to school (agai already shouldering a ton of debt from MS degree). These are just some of the roadblocks I see in front of you depending on the route you want to take. GOOD LUCK!