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1. I wish that Nursing school could be done at a slower pace, part-time so that we could actually devote time to memorizing the material rather than cramming it in. From what I can tell, the rule that we must complete the ADN in 3 years is that it
would lower the schools rates on paper for what % graduate in that amount of time. I personally, have responsibilities outside of nursing school. I am a full-time mom first, and a nursing student second. I have gotten Straight-As in all college
course work up until this point, but before clinical courses began I was able to devote actual time to studying. The cramming and the stress are utterly unnecessary to the learning process. I would rather have the option of slowing down to memorize the material, even if takes an extra couple of years to get through the program.
2. Why is it that nursing school must grade entirely on NCLEX-style questions that cannot be fully prepared for?
Of course it matters that we pass the NCLEX, but for many that is not the final goal. If nobody will get an "A", and the entire class ends up just hoping to pass, it hurts our ability to transfer into higher level programs later. How does it benefit the image of nurses as highly educated professionals to keep them out of graduate school programs or make their GPAs less competitive? I know that many schools receive funding based on their NCLEX pass rates, but this should NOT be used to justify these grading methods. It harms more students than it helps, especially those with higher educational goals than just getting through the NCLEX.
3. The lectures and the textbook readings should at least moderately relate to what we are tested on. If we are presented with a bunch of NCLEX-style questions, and we were not actually taught that material...do not say something insulting like "Use your critical thinking". Every one of us uses critical thinking, or we would not have made it into the program to begin with. Nursing students are generally adults, most of whom have had prior careers, and we do not benefit from being talked down to. You may mean well, and you may have convinced yourself that this is educationally necessary. Let me assure you that these tactics are insulting, reminiscent of basic training, and not indicative of our learning potentials.
Base your grading on what you have actually taught, not on the NCLEX itself. I don't care about your school's exam %. I do care that I be graded on the material given, and rewarded for effort. It seems to me that schools are so desperate to keep their NCLEX funding that they weed out the students in Fundamentals who aren't already good at this test style.
Those of us who had the highest test scores in the class were the ones who figured out early to focus on NCLEX practice books more than on the assigned reading material. Many of these questions can be answered without memorizing the real material, and that should scare patients. When did the nursing process itself become more important than learning how to heal, and not kill people? It is just ridiculous.
I can do NCLEX practice tests at home in my spare time. That is not what I am paying for.
4. If your school has the audacity to advertise the program to the general scholastic population as a regular major, then it should be an entry level program. Those of us who do not have a decade of CNA experience should not be expected to know how to do things before you teach them. I don't want to watch a short video made in the 1970s and then be expected to perform a procedure. Give a demonstration, and adequate practice time in lab. Remember that we waited on long lists and maintained perfect grades in our prerequisites to get into these programs.
5. Focus on educating us, not on weeding out the perceived undesirables. We lost several people from our Fundamentals class who would have made wonderful nurses. We have kept a few of the less empathetic souls however. society wants empathetic, intellectual, nurturing nurses. From what I have witnessed, those are the students who mostly drop out. The hardened students, and the ones who care only to pass (regardless of GPA) are the ones who make it. Who does that actually benefit?
6. I love patient care, and clinical :heartbeat.
I loved my clinical instructor because she was kind. :heartbeat
Others were not so lucky. I would have a hard time actually respecting a clinical
instructor who was otherwise. Respect students if you want them to respect you on more than a superficial level.
7. I hate long lectures where the professor just reads directly off a Powerpoint first thing in th morning. That is pretty much wasted study time. I can read a Powerpoint online, as I have in many other classes. If you are not going to actually tell us what we need to memorize, and what will be on the exam, there is little reason to wake up at 6am to go to lecture every day. Everything I learned in lecture could have been taught as an online course. Only clinical and lab required attendance. It is hard as an adult student who has taken numerous online classes to not notice that this could be done much more efficiently. In nursing school, efficiency is everything.
8. It is substantially more stressful to take 9 credit courses than 3 credit courses. Why do the ADN programs do this? If you just need to retake a 3 credit course, that is reasonably doable. Too many people in my program have had to repeat the entire 9 credits. It makes me wish that I had chosen to go directly into a BSN, even though my school has a 2+2 transfer agreement. 3 credit courses would have been substantially less stressful for me.
Well, first of all, I do not care if you believe me. The program that I am in has a long waiting list, and numerous prerequisite classes that tend to weed out those who do not have nearly perfect GPAs and excellent study habits. Chances are that all of those people who annoy you by saying they have high averages, actually do...hence why they got into these programs to begin with. Our class was told that nobody would get an "A" and that those who got through it would probably do so with between a 75 0r 80. In 9 credit courses that causes significant, unnecessary damage to our transcripts and long run transfer prospects. Perhaps you do not care about your grades, but I do. Studying for the sake of doing well should be enough? No. Some of us are not simply looking for a passing grade, especially those with master's degree goals. What is up with your "grow up", text-messaging obsessed commentary anyway? I noticed on your profile that you have not given Kudos to any postings written by others. Are you just in the habit of insulting others instead? As for nursing school being mostly self-taught, yes, you are right that this is to be expected. However, if the testing is not over material assigned, then no we should not be expected to pull it out of the ether. It should horrify patients to know that many of these test questions can be answered without learning the medical material because all that really matters in nursing school is whether you are familiar with NCLEX-style questions. If the professors cannot even agree on the right answers themselves, then it is not a measure of critical thinking, but rather a measure of the thinking of the author of that particular question. Clinical has been the one area of nursing school that has not been scholastically disappointing.
You can see this is a tough topic to address. Many students (in general) complain over any little difficulty and want "to be spoonfed" and do have a rather 'entitled' attitude. So some seem quick to conclude that any students complaints are just spoiled whining. However, I do think there are some valid complaints and I think you nailed them, CareFully. A student *does* need to have some knowledge down to be able to pass the tests, but consistently scoring well above average on tests seems more a reflection of effective test-taking strategies and/or question-writer-mind-reading than retention, comprehension, or application of medical/nursing knowledge. I could get Bs by skimming through the material. Or I could get Bs by carefully reading everything, trying to understand it all, and quizzing myself on it. But such "overstudying" would lead to "overthinking" that made taking the tests more difficult! And don't even get me started on questions where even other professors and qualified personnel have to make educated guesses on why one of two 'both correct' answers is "better"... or questions where you're supposed to choose the 'best' from all slightly inaccurate choices!
CareFully,
I'm not going to flame you for venting. Your post implied that this is a vent, and you have the right to do that. Lord knows, nursing students are usually under a heap of stress and you need to get out your frustrations. I find a lot of your points valid. I'm guilty of some of the things on your list and also annoyed by other things on your list, that I witness as a student.
Inconsistency in the RN program seems to be the biggest complaint of most of the nursing students that I know, regardless of the school. My plan is to just keep pressing onward and doing the best I can. Bear with it and keep your final goals in mind. I'm sure you will do great :)
I had my very first exam ever in the Nursing program today. I passed! We are not allowed to discuss the exam , but I will say I was upset that I didnt get a better grade. The questions were not clear and I went back and second guessed myself, changed 2 correct answers to incorrect answers! Stupid me. I know how some questions can seem unfair now and you are right, there is no way to study for some of this. We were not "taught" some of the material, and I do not have a medical background. That being said, one of the ladies in our class did have a medical background and did worse than me because her work experience did not jive with the exam.
This the reason why I'm going the EC route. No nursing school/classroom drama. You read, study and when you're ready, take the exam and that's it. On to the next exam until you reach the CPNE.
Add #4 on CareFully's list and that's why I'm also going the EC route.
Too many LPNs drop out at our CC for that reason. I figured there had to be a better way, and found it.
"Think critically" is the mantra of nursing schools. Whether you were an accountant, teacher, police officer, etc. in your previous life, nursing school exams have a life of their own: you've probebly never taken an exam like that before. So, you're not being talked down to. So after the first exam is administered and the class average is low, and everyone starts whining about thow the exam was "unfair", that should serve as a wake-up call. I've taken many a nursing exam that have had questions that I disagree with, but at the end of the day, those questions were put on there for a reason--to really get us thinking.Here's the classic example we were shown in class:
For example:
Which of the following is not a shade of blue?
a. Dark blue.
b. Midnight blue.
c. Sky blue.
d. Blue.
Answer is "d"--blue in itself is not a "shade" of blue.
See what I mean?
And what was stated before, your teachers will not tell you what needs to be memorized, and what will be presented on the exam. If you want that, go back to high school. If you're so bent on getting up at 6a.m. for a "worthwhile" class, it sounds like your priorities are not placed in nursing school. Go back to texting about the huge party at Amanda's on Friday night.
Seriously???? Wow that was so difficult, if you wouldn't have displayed the answer and reasoning we would never have been able to figure it out. On another note you have so many posts talking about how people look, act, and so on... Really you must be the best- looking, dressed, and perfect person to constantly be so judgemental of others. It makes me wonder whats wrong with you, since you spend so much time discussing your classmates but never yourself.
Furthermore, our exams are written by six different professors who frequently disagree on the answers themselves.
This, I agree, is not the best idea. My teachers wrote their own exam, end of story. I do think some nursing students expect things to be handed to them. I'm sure someone has gotten an A in your program by the way. While most may not, someone will. When I was going through school, the students from the semester ahead would always say, "omg ur class is screwed, such and such teacher is impossible to pass...they expect you to know every page of this or that, the tests are opinionated, unfair, all the answers are right, tricky, impossible, etc. etc."...well you know what? I didn't listen to it, and I never made a C in nursing school. I'm not bragging, but it has been done, and will be done......in every program. The dean told us don't "expect" to make all A's, but some did. Many failed, but many did well.
I definitely understand everyone needs to vent, I just see things differently but that is me so I won't knock you for venting. I guess people just need to remember not everyone sees things the way they do and that you should educate them or explain your views not tongue lash them.
Well I guess I just see things differently because I was military and went through 4 months of electronics school and learned what a civilian would learn in 2 years. Then I got a Bachelors and I took 8 week classes, mostly online, and I had to learn quickly and teach myself a lot of stuff. I also went to college while in the military. So overall I am used to craziness.
I do think the overall objective of the powerpoint style of teaching is to give us info on main topics, things that are super important. But then it falls in our hands to read our assigned reading and learn the "meat and potatoes". I do not really think it means the professors can't teach but that they are expecting us to learn to be self learners; and the reason I think they do this is because as Nurses we will need to be motivated to learn for our whole lives.
I can say from my life experience as an electronics troubleshooter there is a big difference between thinking and critical thinking. It is hard to explain but when you troubleshoot you are not just thinking. As a nurse you troubleshoot humans. I really wish I could explain how it is different but it is hard to put into words. But I think one day you will be out on the floor and a light bulb will go off and you will be like "Oh that is what they meant". I felt the same way you do in electronics school and one day on the flight deck I was like "oh I get it now". I really like the example the guy gave earlier about the Blue question. It might be hard for you to see it now but he really has a point.
I also agree with everyone on different professors writing tests. This was a problem for me with my pre-req classes and I am sure it will be a problem when I start the actual ADN program on Monday.
Good luck everyone!
iluvpatho,
I will gladly discuss myself. I f I do poorly on an exam, it's MY fault for not doing well, and I'm not quick to blame the test format, the wording of the questions, etc. It's called personal responsibility. Look it up. No, my gpa is not a 3.9, and it's MY gpa because I earned it. I don't attribute it to "easy" classes whre everything was spoon fed to me. I distance myself from many students, because it's the negativity, gossiping, acting like a bunch of high school girls that gets really old, really fast. I don't post things on Facebook, I don't give people my phone number. I really don't want people calling me at 3 a.m. asking me what I'm doing.--I'm sleeping! Duh!
If I come across as judgemental, it's really observations--the stuff I see. If I'm walking across campus, I don't need people in my class running up to me asking "What did you put for #39?" I don't even know what the question was, and I'm not telling you what my answer was. Or, "Oh. My. God. Jennifer has these really bad hair extensions. Did you see them?" No, I didn't. Can you leave me alone now?
CareFUlly--Please go to one of your senior instructors and tell them "I can pass any of your exams just by knowing NCLEX style questions and not the material you teach in class." Good luck with that one and tell me how it turns out.
Tyler77- I don't associate myself with any of the things you described either. Mostly I am amused by what you post since there can be a lot of truth in them. I guess to be completely honest with you I just was in a very good mood today (it's my birthday) and when I read your post I thought, geezz this guy is always so negative. I know there are a lot of different types of annoying and so forth types of students but tehre are also a lot of stupid things on the academic side as well which I felt the op was referring to.
Keep in mind - ALL school is to some extent about jumping through fairly arbitrary hoops - I've bee through a variety of such. You don what you need to do to get through, then, like me now, you have earned the luxury of laughing about it.
Second - grade inflation as it is (I was a student in the past and a teacher in the present), students' expectations have become rather unrealistic - sadly schools have made it so. I had a 3.97 at Cornell in the 80s - that meant I was top 1 per cent of a ruthlessly competitive, driven population of students. 99 per cent of my classmates had lower GPA, guaranteed. Today, straight As means, to a surprising extent to me, that you showed up, did the assignments and paid tuition - the minimum. Which is fine, except that it means that high grades today mean basically nothing. You cannot do better than average, because the average is pegged to near-maximum.
Third point - to get back to point 1 - given grade inflation, and the longstanding fact (trust me) that virtually no one except your parents care a whit about your grades once you start working, means that , truly, you are best served by bearing down, getting through school however you can, pass the NCLEX, get a job, and then you never have to worry about such things again unless you choose to go to grad school. Worrying about how it should be, while you pass through, is natural and probably inevitable but also a total waste of your energy.
Tyler77
144 Posts
CareFully,
You and the many denziens of individuals that "maintain a high grade point average" is sooooo old. If you have a high gpa, then studying for the sake of doing well should be enough for you. If you've had EVERYTHING told to you in advance that was going to be on EVERY exam that you've taken, then I don't believe you. The learning in nursing school is mostly self taught--if you can't do that, well, what do you want from your instructors. And yes, almost 99.95 of all students use their phone or IPod as a lifelineso they can text their mindless thoughts to the person sitting next to them.
People need to take a good dose of "grow up" pills and stop expecting everything handed to them. Yes, you're a nursing student. Now lose that sense of entitlement.
Empathize, schemnthasize--when nursing students are let to their own devices, nearly all will gossip, backstab, or create drama.