A legality question about pay

this is my first post so i hope i put it in the right place. i was wondering if anyone could answer a question for me. my mother is a can in training and has a question about something strange the nursing home she works at is doing with her pay. here's how she put it: "i learned something disturbing about the way we get paid today. we are required to stay about 15 minutes after our shift ends in order to count the medicine with the new shift cna and to tell them about the patients,etc. and yet, we are not paid for that time! this is illegal but i would like to know if it is typical of the healthcare industry. would you be able to post this question somewhere on the boards you read? i work hard and want to get paid for the time that i work but this might just be a standard practice for this industry, in which case i would suck it up and get used to it! our facility is known for being cheap and treating their help poorly..."

does anyone have any info that might help? we live in utah and times are tough so we would appreciate any advice.

People work "off the clock" all the time, especially healthcare workers. Although it's not right, it certainly happens.

Yup. I used to get to work almost an hour early to get my patient assignment, look up meds, etc., but not swipe in until 15 minutes before the start of my shift.

At one job we were required to report 15 minutes early to get report and count. At the proper time, both nurses went to the time clock to punch out and in on time. Not right, but necessary if one wanted the job. Who is going to complain to the Labor Board when there are no jobs available?

Sorry, not right in any way. In 17 years in healthcare, I have never clocked out and completed required work.

I would be complaining to the Labor Board, it's illegal what they are doing.

I've never worked in any facility that outright required staff to work off the clock. Frankly, that would make them sitting ducks for the labor board.

But what many institution do is this: build a break into the working shift that is longer than required by state/federal law, then use that time as an "overlap" with the oncoming shift. For example, many employees who work an 8 hour shift are entitled (by law) to a 30 minute paid break. The hospital allows a 45 minute lunch or dinner break. The employee then "owes" 15 minutes of working time back to the employer, which is used as the overlap with the on-coming shift.

In this case, an employee who does not get to take a lunch/dinner break needs to notify his/her supervisor in writing and request that time to be paid.

No- normal or not..it is not legal for them to do. She should not clock out until she is finished working.

If my mom reports this to the Labor Board will her employers know it was her that reported them? It seems to be a common problem but it doesn't seem right to just roll over and let them walk all over you. And thanks everyone for the replyes so far.

The Labor Board will look into all unfair labor practices without telling the business who did the reporting. Most places build that overlap into the paid shift time, which is why the shifts end 15-30 minutes past 8 hours.

Just really curious as to why a CNA is counting medications. If that is the case, I would say working off the clock isn't the only thing illegal going on in the company....

Just really curious as to why a CNA is counting medications. If that is the case, I would say working off the clock isn't the only thing illegal going on in the company....

Yea, I meant to comment on that as well. But I thought maybe it was a TMA?

Our state has medication aids that are able to do everything except VERY certain meds in ECF / SNF's

She works at a nursing home where there are only teenage girls who work as CNA's in charge. It's really crazy there. Like the otherday where she was left all alone to take care of like fifty people or something all by herself, even though she isn't certified yet and has only been on the job for five days or so. So I really wouldn't be surprised if it was ilegal for the CNA's in our state to be handling meds, the management would probably ignore that.

Any state that *I* have ever been in has an obligatory ON SITE RN / LPN. They don't have to know they're there, but they have to be able to be called if need be. Most likely they were in an office somewhere on campus that she doesn't know about.

I would say if not she needs to find a new job for her safety and so she's not held liable for a poor patient outcome or sentinel event.

Finally, she most likely "is" paid for these hours, and I'll explain... My shift is - literally - 18:45-0715. They only pay me for 12 hours, though. How do they get around this? In OH per labor laws, if you work 6+hrs you are given a MANDATORY off-the-clock lunch break. If you don't take this break or are not given the opportunity to take the said break, you are 100% entitled, BY LAW pay for this time spent charting/doing patient care.

Are you sure she is not getting paid? I am an RN, but I have to be at my shift 15 minutes early to get report, and stay about 15 minutes late to make sure things are wrapped up. Thats 30 minutes, but I get a 30 minute lunch break which is not paid so the 30 extra makes up for the lunch break to give me a straight 12 hours. Could that be what is happening with your mom?

Several people have given different scenarios of what might be happening with your mother's time and pay of which any one of them could be true.

But I have one suggestion.....if I'm reading your original post right......

if your mom is actually working off the clock...counting meds before she is clocked in......make sure your mom is documenting the exact time down to the minute that she is doing the count. Then if she goes to clock in that will give some documentation that she is being forced to work off the clock.

HOWever....with that being said also make sure she is actually working off the clock. It may be that she's getting a 30 minute lunch beak and if she is then the 15 minutes before and after is to make up for the 30 minute lunch break...if your mom wants a full shift's pay she has to make up that 30 minutes.

I always wanted my full 8 hours of pay so I didn't mind working the extra 30 minutes for the lunch break. But if I had to work during my lunch break I made sure I filled out my time adjustment so I got paid for no lunch break.

Anonymous complaint to the state attorney general. If they know who complained they will fire that person for sure.

I get on at 2300. Count narcs, get report. I get a half hour lunch. I get off shift at 0700 but stay until 0730 counting narcs and getting report. I get paid for all 8 hrs. If report goes over 15 mins I get paid 8.25 hours. I clock in at 2300 and clock out at the end of report and get paid for it, period.

It is illegal - violates Federal Wage and Labor Act (FSLA) standards. Report them immediately and they will be promptly invesitgated. There is zero tolerance for this behavior.