I am taking online A&P II at a community college. The course includes a lab component, though lab is not a requirement for the nursing program to which I have been admitted. I am not squeamish (used to be an EMT), nor do I oppose human cadaver dissection. I do, however, object to animal dissection for ethical reasons. I contacted my professor to request an alternative to the cow eye and heart dissection activities citing my ethical objection to animal dissection, and the fact that I haven't eaten or worn animals for over two decades. I expressed my willingness to engage in an alternate activity, such as an interactive, multimedia software program (we already utilize such software to conduct experiments on virtual lab animals). My request was denied. I was informed that if I chose not to do the dissections, I would be penalized with a deduction in points.
In response to my e-mail asking my professor to reconsider, I received the following reply (excerpt):
Would you tell someone who is badly mangled in a auto accident and bleeding to death that you cannot work on them because you are a vegetarian? I would hope not. If so, then you should choose another career.
My professor also called my ethical opposition to animal dissection into question with the following statement:
I understand being a vegetarian but this assignment does not require you to eat these animal specimens.
I found his message to be inappropriate, offensive, and ridiculous. I would like to obtain some outside perspective and would appreciate any comments you may have about this situation. Thanks.
Why don't you people get it? It has NOTHING to do with being easy or hard or squeamish. It has to do with ethics. She, as am I, is ethically opposed to animal dissection. Most nursing schools require you to take an ethics course. So you should understand the difference. The OP said she was an EMT. She obviously has NO problems performing the duties of a nurse and I am sure she will make a great nurse.
Personal ethics HAVE to be put aside. I work in a trauma unit. We had a guy in here, critical, and intubated, whose license was flagged that he was a SEX OFFENDER. The docs and nurses STILL treat him the same as they would ANY OTHER. If one can't put aside one's vegetarianism... Just sayin'.
And yet for 16 years I have been a fine nurse without ever dissecting a thing!
I will just totally have to disagree.
Pilots do not have to dissect a plane in order to understand the mechanics and fly........:)
So just because you personally have done fine without dissection, all the teachers should go ahead and ex it off their lists for good?
So many other posters have said that dissection helped them immensely, and was an invaluable tool. Maybe you could have been an even BETTER nursing student had you dissected, but you'll never know the answer, nor will anyone else. All I'm saying is, why judge something that you never even bothered to try, and call it useless just because you got through without it?
So far I've never had to use a bus, but I understand why they are important....
As far as everything else goes, the professor was a little harsh, but you're in for a rude awakening once you start working with cranky doctors and demanding patients. All he did was deny your request, and ask a valid question in the process. He didn't call you stupid, he didn't make fun of your beliefs, he didn't really do ANYTHING. Why are you so offended?
You were just hoping he would say "Sure! No problem!" and that would be that. Well, welcome to college.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
"So just because you personally have done fine without dissection, all the teachers should go ahead and ex it off their lists for good? "
You obviously did not read what I said!
I said if a person is opposed to it for whatever reason (who cares why) they should be able to opt out and do an alternative assignment as it is not crucial to becoming an effective nurse.
I also said that those that want to do it should.
I think you need to pay a little more attention and maybe read the whole post before you respond next time.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
"You were just hoping he would say "Sure! No problem!" and that would be that. Well, welcome to college."
Perhaps she was hoping he would act like a mature professional and offer to discuss alternatives. I find it funny that people who would be appalled by that kind of response by a nurse find it perfectly acceptable from this instructor.
P.S. The kindness, understanding, and sympathy many of you have not shown is way more of a risk to being a good nurse than not dissecting an old dead cat.
Ok, really done, I also do not believe in beating a dead horse.
Well obviously the professor is a rude jerk, I never said he wasn't.
BUT HE IS STILL A PROFESSOR!!
Does he not deserve respect? He was probably offended when the OP told him she not only did not want to do that part of the course, but also did not NEED to do it. When my teachers tell me to do something, I do it (or take a failing grade and know why). I may question in my mind whether or not it's REAAALLLLY necessary to do certain tasks, especially if they seem repetitive and I already think I get it.....
But who am I, as a student, to tell my professor what I do and do not need to learn in his class?
How rude is that? The OP says she doesn't "need" the lab components.....which is mind boggling to me but whatever.......so why did she sign up for that particular course? College isn't just about learning facts, it also teaches you to bend your own rules and do things you don't want to.
If she wants to pass THAT CERTAIN biology 2020 with a lab component, well......she has to do what the course outlines! It's not rocket science, people. She should have signed up for basic A&P.
And ChurchRN, I am sure there are WONDERFUL modernizing teachers who can use 3-D models and/or computer technology and teach way more than "old Mrs. Featherbottom and her 1975 cat dissection production" (I made that up) she pulls out every year and makes the students do....I have no doubt! And yes, it IS cruel to the poor cats! At least by doing the lab component the cruel death won't be for no reason. I'm sure no one enjoys it.
EDIT: ChurchRN, I find it funny that you seem to know so much about what will or wont make a good nurse....and judge us so quickly, when you dont even really know us. I would never say whether or not someone will make a good nurse based on a post on an internet board! That's a little much.....And now Im done as well.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
Actually, it is CrunchRN, not churchrn - LOL!
She shouldn't be disrespectful, and neither should he.
Animal dissection is very emotional and disturbing to some people and I believe it does deserve different consideration than many other things.
"and judge us so quickly, when you dont even really know us. I would never say whether or not someone will make a good nurse based on a post on an internet board! That's a little much.....And now Im done as well."
That is my whole point! All these people here are judging this student because it disturbs her to dissect an animal and are telling her she " may not be cut out to be a nurse" because of it. I find that just ugly and not true.
I believe that i as an experienced nurse am probably a better judge of how crucial cutting up a cat is than her A & P prof who presumably knows very little about what it takes to actually be a nurse.
First of all, get over yourself. What is inappropriate is nursing students all over the place complaining and whining about things they don't want to do or they deserved this grade or that grade, or this part of the program is bad or blah, blah, blah. Chances are your college has carefully reviewed the program that you are taking and thought it was important or they would not have included it. We have ALL had to endure these procedures and we have all survived. While I respect your decision to be vegan and your choice in organic clothing and shoes, my question is...are you not going to inject certain insulins because some are obtained from animals? Heparin injections?? Will you go so far as to not administer certain meds or complete certain procedures because animals were killed and yes brutally dissected for the research involved. Where will you draw the line?? The truth is naive one, is that you are entering a field that is comprised on the study of animals, the use of animal products and parts, and that these poor creatures are killed for further research everyday, everywhere, all of the time. It doesn't make it right...that is just the way it is.
If you don't feel comfortable dissecting an animal, you may need to find another kind of occupation. Dissecting an animal is a lot easier than some of the things you will have to do with people. I feel your instructor was right on target.
The OP's issue is not if it is easy or not to dissect. The OP is willing to dissect cadavers. The OP is not trying to get out of work. The OP is not "grossed out" by the assignment. The OP has emergency medical experience according to earlier comments, so likely they have already experienced many of the unpleasant and messy sides of patient care. The OP will be a fine nurse without dissecting animal parts.
The OP's issue is not if it is easy or not to dissect. The OP is willing to dissect cadavers. The OP is not trying to get out of work. The OP is not "grossed out" by the assignment. The OP has emergency medical experience according to earlier comments, so likely they have already experienced many of the unpleasant and messy sides of patient care. The OP will be a fine nurse without dissecting animal parts.
Then they should find a school that dissects human cadavers instead of trying to change the content of the college course they're enrolled in.
The part I don't understand is, was this a surprise? Was it not listed in the course catalog that this class required a lab that did animal dissections? If so, did the OP try speaking with the school before they enrolled? Or did they just expect the course curriculum to be changed for their personal preference?
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Personal ethics HAVE to be put aside. I work in a trauma unit. We had a guy in here, critical, and intubated, whose license was flagged that he was a SEX OFFENDER. The docs and nurses STILL treat him the same as they would ANY OTHER. If one can't put aside one's vegetarianism... Just sayin'.
This has nothing to do with who a nurse provides care for! By that line of reasoning she wouldn't take care of anyone who eats meat or wears leather shoes, and she would only do a human cadaver dissection (which she is not opposed to) on a cadaver that had been a vegetarian. Those are separate issues, and I still find it bothersome that people will say "put aside your vegetarianism" as if it were purely a dietary consideration when so many people have told us it is a moral/ethical consideration. People are welcome to disagree but to drag out the old canard "maybe you should consider another line of work", is blowing this waaay out of proportion.
CuriousMe, I agree with most of your comment. My initial response to this thread was for the OP to opt out of the lab class, since the lab isn't required. If lab is required/desirable, the OP could also find an alternative. Some online classes have interactive media labs. He/She has many options, for which I am thankful!
If the OP feels they were treated inappropriately by the faculty's response to a request (the OP was not *expecting* the curriculum to change just for them, merely inquiring as to if it was a possibilty and stating a legitimate reason for wanting to find an alternative), which I personally believe the OP was, then it is their right and responsibility to take it up with the department head.
What bothers me are the people insinuating the OP would make a poor nurse because of this!
Suse
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Personal ethics HAVE to be put aside. I work in a trauma unit. We had a guy in here, critical, and intubated, whose license was flagged that he was a SEX OFFENDER. The docs and nurses STILL treat him the same as they would ANY OTHER. If one can't put aside one's vegetarianism... Just sayin'.