****** if you do and ****** if you don't

[oramar]

Here is hypothetical situation, you come upon a person who dies under unusual/suspicious circumstances in a clinical situation. You, an employee of the clinic are the first to find them and you are very sure they are dead but you move them in a position where you can make an attempt to do CPR anyway. The CPR fails. The police then are called and they charge you with disturbing a crime scene. The charges are eventually dropped but not without some hassels. What do you think, does that sound to crazy? I know someone who claims they went through this. I don't know if I believe them.

[netglow, ASN, RN]

If that's all there really was to it...

Sees patient... Says, "Oh ****", calls a code, attempts CPR. Then declared. Did they say a code was called?

[oramar]

If that's all there really was to it...

Sees patient... Says, "Oh ****", calls a code, attempts CPR. Then declared. Did they say a code was called?

Since You know what, I don't have that info on the code but I don't think the have code capabilites. I am pretty sure they do chest compressions till the medics come. The health care institution was not a hospital or ER. The person who found the patient was not a licensed person but a carpenter. As far as I can tell the medics and police arrived same time and the medics said "dead for hours, nothing we can do".

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

Unfortunately it sounds plausible, and the cops are clearly idiots.

[oramar]

I know it is probably a mistake for me to relate these second hand stories. Most the time I don't repeat them but every once in a while one makes me go "hmmmm". I bet if the person was a licensed person or NA the cops would not have said anything but it wouldn't suprise me if they didn't like a handyman/carpenter moving the body.

[netglow, ASN, RN]

Honestly, I think the cops were totally in the right to be suspicious. Maybe your guy thought he could help. But, his behavior would be "off". You have said he was a carpenter/employee of a clinical facility, right? Well, maybe nobody told him what protocol is should he come across a patient in trouble. I really don't know how he'd be able to "denounce" anybody. I'd bet that the rules where he works say, "Don't touch" and "call for help". Poor guy, if he somehow worked for a place that hasn't considered employee-wide training for this type of situation, and if he really just had a good heart.

[Saysfaa]

Wouldn't there have been someone with training really close by in a clinical situation?

[leslie :-D]

i suppose it could happen.

i think i'd likely feel the skin first.

if still warm, i'd perform cpr.

leslie

[scg08rn]

what about good samaritan law?

[RNandRRT]

I'm confused.

I'm pretty sure we emphasize the importance of CPR to everyone. If I go down, I hope to goodness the guy standing next to me attempts CPR whether or not he/she is in the medical field.

Kudos to the carpenter for caring enough to try and do something. Sure, a licensed medical person would have probably realized the futility of the situation. But that's not what we expect from all others.

Anyone can be a first responder, and then as more qualified people arrive, they take over. You don't just sit and wait for the qualified personnel.

What happens if I actually witness someone getting shot? Do I not attempt to save the person, because that person is now part of a crime scene? What if I just hear the gunshot, come onto the scene and see the victim? Same thing?

I must be missing something.

[rayk1021]

I can believe it could happen, as the officer in charge of the scene has the autonomy to charge pretty much whomever they see fit. However, I would like to believe that the good samaritan law would cover this carpenter, and relieve him of any liability. I would be interested to know what, if any, charges were filed against the facility that let a resident lie on the floor "dead for hours" without someone noticing.

[shiccy]

It makes no sense what-so-ever.

If a situation like that happened, you called a code, and it was unsuccessful the police wouldn't be involved. It would possibly be a case for the coroners, but you do things such as cutting lines and sending the patient in the body bag with such lines, etc. I've never seen the police come to the hospital for anything other than a person that was a flight risk, a person under arrest that was in for care, etc.

A nurse's duty to a patient supercedes that of 'messing up a crime scene'. Ditto for EMS. They don't go out of their way to make a mess, but if the person is still alive, or the code is still happening, then you have an obligation to do things like this.