How many Nurses had their CNAs before Nursing School?

[GarrettLeonard]

I am asking these questions to help a friend out, to prove a point.

Did you have your CNA before going into Nursing School?

Is having a CNA required by law to go into Nursing School?

Does the University of Washington School of Nursing Require you to have a CNA for entry?

Can you transfer to the University of Washington School of Nursing with just an Associates in Pre Nursing?

Thank you and I heavily appreciate all responses. Just my girlfriend is working on getting into the ACT program at her Job Corps Center, and everyone she talks to seems to be brainwashed you need your CNA to transfer.

http://nursing.uw.edu/academic-services/degree-programs/bsn/bsn-application-requirements.html

She wont listen to me, so I would like to have some Registered Nurses chime in.

Thank you very much!

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

Icy Sage, I do agree with some of your rant, HOWEVER, I hear most physicians that want their schooling tailored to what nursing school is. I understand streamlining schooling and requirements...in my area, most accredited university programs do have such requirements, like MCAT, GRE, experience, etc, when you go up on levels, but that is for a whole other thread...those people SHOULD not be in nursing, and most of these don't last long or give up, until they "get" what nursing IS, IMHO...that is their issue. At the end of the day, I only stand on what I do with MY license, and MY nursing practice.

I also must say, if you don't like cleaning up, um, "poop," WHY are you not in another part if nursing??? I have net many nurses I have precepted that think like you...because we clean up poop, etc, yuck yuck , blah bla BLAH...we are not respected and we need our worth...LOL.. Reality CHECK!!!:

1. Nursing IS THE MOST RESPECTED profession in global surveys. Google it, research it..in my research class, my CINAHL would pop up papers written about how nurses are seen as trustworthy, competent and knowledgeable, GLOBALLY.

2. My line I give to nurses like you: if you don't like it, you always can be an nurse for the insurance company...pay is great, no poop, accept or reject procedures based on the insurance and nursing model...you will be "respected" by helping them keep profits as well.. :)

Sorry for participating in assisting the hijack of this thead, but lets get back to what the the OP is asking...I am interested in what the OP thinks! :) Hope the OP is still there! :)

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

I'm a second degree RN, so I felt like I'd already lost enough time by the time I went to nursing school. It didn't make sense to pay for a CNA program while I was paying for prenursing classes and paying student loans in my old degree. The local CNA programs were not cheap OR were job training at nursing homes not accessible by public transportation or they had LONG waiting lists. I opted to get my prerequisite classes done and get through an accelerated program as efficiently as possible.

[nurseywifeymommy1]

I did, it was a preq In IL

[Hygiene Queen]

They are essentially saying it should be required for every person who wants to be a respected professional to spend time at the bottom of the ladder doing demeaning tasks. More time should be put towards education and making sure we know more about the chemistry and biology of the body, not more time learning how many different colors poop can come in. It's this mentality that it's a "rite of passage" or all nurses to endure demeaning, mind-numbing, filthy work in order to make it to the top that causes us to not be as respected once we get to the top.

Trust me, a physician will be more impressed by a Nurse Pactitioner who says he or she did cancer research during undergraduate school than one who said they were a CNA. Requiring all nurses to be a CNA during nursing school would mean they wouldn't have the time to pursue these more intelectual interests, such as working in a lab during undergraduate, and instead passing their days changing beds and learning very little that will actually help at the graduate level.

These "mind-numbing" and "demeaning" tasks that involve "filthy work" are actually part of nursing.

It is striking that there are those who hold disdain for what it is the CNA does, yet I am certain those same people would have no issue with CNA's providing this care to them or their loved ones.

The assumption that CNA's are all intellectually inferior or lackadaisical in their intellectual pursuits is preposterous and an assumption I would not be so quick to make.

I agree the standard of education should increased-- even for CNA's, but I agree with nothing more in your post.

[IcySageNurse]

^ My point was that by requiring someone to be a CNA during nursing school it would take time away from doing more academic and scholarly things, such as research. I think more emphasis should be placed on turning out more intelligent nurses vs more hard working nurses.

[soxgirl2008]

I don't know anyone in nursing school who has time for doing research. Between clinicals and all your other homework and working (because most people I know have to work during nursing school. Not everyone can afford not to work.) I know very few people who would have time to be doing research. I agree with some of your points about NP school, and I don't think people should be required to work as a CNA, but I know very few nursing students who have time for research. And around here hospitals would rather see you had CNA/student nurse intern experience in the hospital than that you were doing research because it prepares you more for bedside nursing. Just because someone was doing lowly CNA work during school doesn't mean that they are less intelligent than the one who was doing research. At the graduate level? Sure I agree that research is important. But we aren't talking about people going for their DNP. We're talking about people just starting out for their ADN/BSN, and not everyone wants to go to NP or CRNA school. There are some RNs who are happy staying at the bedside, and you can be intelligent AND hardworking without doing research.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

These "mind-numbing" and "demeaning" tasks that involve "filthy work" are actually part of nursing.

It is striking that there are those who hold disdain for what it is the CNA does, yet I am certain those same people would have no issue with CNA's providing this care to them or their loved ones.

The assumption that CNA's are all intellectually inferior or lackadaisical in their intellectual pursuits is preposterous and an assumption I would not be so quick to make.

I agree the standard of education should increased-- even for CNA's, but I agree with nothing more in your post.

Yes...these "tasks" ARE NURSING....thanks for the clarification...always a pleasure Hygiene Queen!! :)

And Soxgirl2008, you hit the nail on the head!!! :)

[Sand_Dollar, BSN]

My school requires you to have your CNA license (you didn't have to work as a CNA though) to apply to their BSN program. Initially, I thought it was waste of time and money. However, my experience has shown me otherwise. In my first semester we skipped all of the ADLs and stuff CNAs learn, so we started right off with nursing skills. On the first day of nursing clinicals a call light went off and I confidently could say "I got this". There is no being scared of real patients, you have done patient care before. I have a friend in another University in town that does not have the CNA requirement, who didn't actually touch patients until her second semester.

Many of my classmates, including myself have worked prior to and are working as CNAs during school. I can not say yet, but I think having that experience on the resume will definitely help, especially for brand new grads. With CNA experience and being in nursing school many of us (about 25%) currently work in hospitals.

[Blindsided]

No, I haven't heard of it being a requirement, but I believe it really helped me with fundamentals. I did this usually 24-32 hours per week while I was in nursing school. I had three children also, so it was a struggle for sure.

[tokmom, BSN, RN]

I disagree with the many people who think "all nurses should be CNAs" first.

A CNA is a very low education program - most places allow someone to become a CNA in about 6 weeks. The nursing profession already has enough image issues, mainly due to how low our education standards are. We don't come across as professionals. Requiring someone to skip college after high school to go perform a practically minimum wage/low education job would only further diminish our standing with other professionals. Regardless of how important experience is, and it certainly is, education is the only way to gain respect.

IMHO - all nurses should be required to have a BSN, and online programs should be abolished. Maybe then people will understand what a difficult profession it is and give us credit for our knowledge and education. You wonder why some doctors/members of the public are scared of nurse practitioners, think of how they would feel if the CNA whose job was cleaning up poop and changing linens just 5 years earlier is now writing prescriptions and diagnosing their loved ones.

Education is the key. Stop pushing for lowering our respect even further, please.

Are they to be abolished after you finish your online program?

For the record, online programs aren't easy. There is no spoon feeding of information and for those that have no brick and mortar near by it might be the only option.

Personally, I would rather have an MD or ARNP have a history of wiping butts and taking care of people. Those interactions, though demeaning to you, can give much insight on a human being and even why they are admitted. Pt's will talk to you during baths, linen changes and tell you things that they didn't tell the MD.

Secondly, don't ever dismiss wiping up poop. You can learn a lot from your pt. Did they not teach you in nursing school of the different colors, odors and consistency? I have nailed diagnosis by looking at bowel movements.

[ComeTogether, LPN]

Making it optional is fine, but many are saying "I think it should be required."

They are essentially saying it should be required for every person who wants to be a respected professional to spend time at the bottom of the ladder doing demeaning tasks. More time should be put towards education and making sure we know more about the chemistry and biology of the body, not more time learning how many different colors poop can come in. It's this mentality that it's a "rite of passage" or all nurses to endure demeaning, mind-numbing, filthy work in order to make it to the top that causes us to not be as respected once we get to the top.

Trust me, a physician will be more impressed by a Nurse Pactitioner who says he or she did cancer research during undergraduate school than one who said they were a CNA. Requiring all nurses to be a CNA during nursing school would mean they wouldn't have the time to pursue these more intelectual interests, such as working in a lab during undergraduate, and instead passing their days changing beds and learning very little that will actually help at the graduate level.

I rarely see nurses complaining about the need for more education or more standarized tests, etc. It's always "Well I think we should have a minimum of 5 years cleaning sh*t first." It's like nurses only measure success in terms of tons of sh*t they've cleaned. News flash: Education is the most important aspect of being a graduate level nurse provider (NP, CRNA, etc). We would gain more respect if:

1. Nurses were all required to have BSNs.

2. No online programs, especially for NPs.

3. The "DNP" was more clinical hours and advanced coursework, as opposed to theory classes that makes it look like a joke.

4. Entrance to NP school required: A BSN with ONE YEAR minimum experience as a BSN RN. A standized exam, like the MCAT, which measures knowledge of biology, health, etc.

5. A nurse residency type program after graduate school.

We should be complaining to get these things, about QUALITY education, and yet 90% of the posts on here are about "What's the fastest way to get an NP online with 0 experience!" It's sad, it's causing this profession to decline drastically, and if they keep opening these overnight online NP schools and don't get it together and make sure NP school put more value on academic acheivement, research, and test scores over the amount of sh*t someone has cleaned, it's only a matter of time before NP's start to make some major patient safety mistakes and malpractice, and states step in to limit their power.

CNA work is nursing work. The reason I think nurses should be CNAs first is to weed out the ones who have the mentality that they are better than others. There is nothing demeaning about being a CNA. It i demeaning to crap in your pants and have to go through two nurses before someone finds you a CNA to clean up when in reality said nurse should pull up her sleeves and get to it. Nursing is more than education and school. Nurses who are CNAs first will know first hand how HARD CNAs work and they will know a good CNA is worth their weight in gold. They will know what to expect when they get into school and they will know NOT to refer to their helpers as having a demeaning profession when really, they just know its simply something they couldn't do themselves because they don't have the STOMACH for it or the HEART it takes to care for people so intimately. I am honored and privileged to be a CNA and care for these people who need te help so desperately. When I am done with nursing school it will make me a more compassionate and knowledgeable nurse.

"No day but today"

[ComeTogether, LPN]

These "mind-numbing" and "demeaning" tasks that involve "filthy work" are actually part of nursing.

It is striking that there are those who hold disdain for what it is the CNA does, yet I am certain those same people would have no issue with CNA's providing this care to them or their loved ones.

The assumption that CNA's are all intellectually inferior or lackadaisical in their intellectual pursuits is preposterous and an assumption I would not be so quick to make.

I agree the standard of education should increased-- even for CNA's, but I agree with nothing more in your post.

Thank you. Holy crap there is STEAM coming out of my ears!! Some people have nooooo business in bedside nursing IMO.

"No day but today"