Too many online NP programs

futureeastcoastNP · Mar 26, 2014

Same reason schools don't provide preceptors now: students accept it and don't ask them to change, and it's cheaper for them.

mzaur · Mar 26, 2014

but for people that CAN and are WILLING to move to attend an FNP program full time (and I do think this should be the normal and preferred way)...why aren't these available anymore?

Of course traditional brick and mortar FNP programs are still available... Did you look around?

stickit34 · Mar 26, 2014

I am currently applying to three brick and mortar schools in my state, and all of them require me to move to go to them. B&M schools do exist out there! :) I think that if you are not happy with online NP programs, then you should write to the credentialing agencies and ANA and other professional organizations. I already did :)

zenman · Mar 26, 2014

Educational delivery methods will change as technology changes. For example I bet you don't use a Walkman anymore...or even know what it is. Not too many years ago all grades used to be taught in a 1 room classroom. Do this: pick a drug, say Wellbutrin, and just spend a few hours on youtube listening to videos about the drug. Sit there in your PJ,s with a bowl of popcorn and a Coke and I'll bet you'll know more about it than what you will learn in a couple hours in class. Pick a physical exam video from a well-known medical school, one that makes videos for their medical students, and watch it any time of the day or night before going to class. The person on the video probably has more experience doing physicals than your instructor and you can now do a physical just like an expert. In fact, if you get a partner, you can do an exam on them while you follow along on the video. A couple times and you'll have it done perfectly. Do these activities in the time you normally would have been driving to class and finding a parking space.

Eru IlÃºvatar · Mar 26, 2014

Educational delivery methods will change as technology changes. For example I bet you don't use a Walkman anymore...or even know what it is. Not too many years ago all grades used to be taught in a 1 room classroom. Do this: pick a drug say Wellbutrin, and just spend a few hours on youtube listening to videos about the drug. Sit there in your PJ,s with a bowl of popcorn and a Coke and I'll bet you'll know more about it than what you will learn in a couple hours in class. Pick a physical exam video from a well-known medical school, one that makes videos for their medical students, and watch it any time of the day or night before going to class. The person on the video probably has more experience doing physicals than your instructor and you can now do a physical just like an expert. In fact, if you get a partner, you can do an exam on them while you follow along on the video. A couple times and you'll have it done perfectly. Do these activities in the time you normally would have been driving to class and finding a parking space.[/quote'] Zenman, What you describe are valuable resources and are in my opinion an addition to the traditional classroom experience. During my undergrad education I have taken so far both online and face to face classes, and while both deliver an excellent quality of content , there are some underlaying things that can only be experienced by face to face interaction. I would say the most valuable is networking, many opportunities in employment or life changes have come from interacting with classmates. Also the face to face interactions lead to establishing a more intimate support group for studying for exams, quizzing each other , etc; which would be harder to do in online classes due to geographical differences between students. An online post, email , etc , does not provides the same interaction that a face to face class, and after all we are social creatures so isolation is never good. It saddens me that the world in which we live has pushed us apart, and I know the advantages that providing online classes provide for those that life circumstances do not allow for a normal face to face interaction, but still I feel something will be missing from the full experience. A smile, a joke, that question we have no way of figuring out but a classmate can explain in so plain words that it clicks in our minds finally. For those of you that need to do online because of your specific situations, i understand, i have been there. But I feel it is still much better to be able to share some time and knowledge with others in a classroom, it is a one in a whole lifetime experience.

Trauma Columnist · Mar 26, 2014

Both brick and mortar and online education are both great resources to pursuing an education.

However, as zenman states, education like everything else evolves.

When I first became a nurse, we mixed our own IV solutions in glass bottles, we sterilized our own bedpans in a sterilizer that was on the floor itself.

Staff, including physicians and patients all smoked at the nurses station.

Nurses were expected to stand when a physician came into the nurses station and carry their charts as they made rounds.

As time went on, I used a PDA for drug reference (and thought I was pretty hot stuff too - lol).

Now, as an APN, I use an ipad mini, a smart phone, and a computer.

Everything evolves. Including education.

However, for people that wish to attend a brick and mortar that's okay.

For people that want to attend an online program, thats okay too.

We, as APNs have a much higher duty to ourselves and our profession then to argue about education. Truly, legislation for autonomous practice, insurance billing, being able to sign ALL forms that our pts require, prescribe ALL the meds our pts need and many more issues are so much more important.

Its interesting to me that for the most part, these threads are started by students or those with little to no APN experience.

PG2018 · Mar 26, 2014

Making yet another comparison to medical school *chuckles,* I've had several docs tell me that they never went to lecture as med students. Why? They found them boring and trivial and were able to learn more by reading the books than by listening to academics talk.

I think it's Creighton who has an online pharmacy program so we'll see this as the wave of the future. I'm highly auditory in my learning style and am able to retain conversations almost word for word so lectures are great when I'm not bored. On the flip side, I like doing school when I want to do school. Driving to class and sitting through some teacher's lecture when they deem it most advantageous to them isn't really something I can do right now. I don't know about APN programs in general because even though my program, offered largely online, is part of a brick and mortar university medical center but when reflecting on my RN school experiences...well, nine times out of ten the teachers were never capable of answering my questions anyway so mandatory class for us seemed frivilous. I did a BSN program, gaining my RN education, a decade after my first bachelor's and post-grad work.

futureeastcoastNP · Mar 26, 2014

Making yet another comparison to medical school *chuckles,* I've had several docs tell me that they never went to lecture as med students. Why? They found them boring and trivial and were able to learn more by reading the books than by listening to academics talk.
I think it's Creighton who has an online pharmacy program so we'll see this as the wave of the future. I'm highly auditory in my learning style and am able to retain conversations almost word for word so lectures are great when I'm not bored. On the flip side, I like doing school when I want to do school. Driving to class and sitting through some teacher's lecture when they deem it most advantageous to them isn't really something I can do right now. I don't know about APN programs in general because even though my program, offered largely online, is part of a brick and mortar university medical center but when reflecting on my RN school experiences...well, nine times out of ten the teachers were never capable of answering my questions anyway so mandatory class for us seemed frivilous. I did a BSN program, gaining my RN education, a decade after my first bachelor's and post-grad work.

I agree with this. I think online programs are fine, and honestly I don't see the difference in watching lectures online versus going in person. If anything the extra time saved by not having to drive to campus means more study time. In addition, I always concentrate a lot better at home in my office versus in school with classmates, where most people spend the time catching up with each other rather than paying attention.

The only issue I see with online programs are when the programs do not take an active role in ensuring student preparation. This means not having campus visit days for competency, and not setting up proper clinical experience with vetted, experience NP preceptors. I also feel that the pre canned module based online programs (as opposed to recorded lectures) are a negative trend as well.

Overall, though, I think online is fine as long as it's done effectively.

chillnurse, BSN, RN, NP · Mar 27, 2014

As long as it's a decent program with skill check offs, written exams, and clinical site visits they should be okay. And not based off of writing papers. Writing papers does not help in practice. At all

SoniaReb · Mar 27, 2014

IMHO, the trend towards Online format is really one of survival. It is much "cheaper" for schools to educate via the Online format, that many B&M Schools realize that if they do not move in that direction, they will eventually have very few students. Even at the undergraduate level, some schools, such as the University of Florida, are not using Online format for some of their undergraduate degrees. You can now get a 4-year undergraduate degree without having set foot on campus. This will allow UF to attract more students and for the most part, online tuition is the same, yet the delivery method is a lot cheaper. We will see more schools doing the same thing eventually.

No need to construct more buildings on campus to accommodate an increasing student population. Is guess the idiom of "if you can't beat them then join them" is now the winning strategy! Schools get a better return on their money by going the Online route.

futureeastcoastNP · Mar 27, 2014

IMHO, the trend towards Online format is really one of survival. It is much "cheaper" for schools to educate via the Online format, that many B&M Schools realize that if they do not move in that direction, they will eventually have very few students. Even at the undergraduate level, some schools, such as the University of Florida, are not using Online format for some of their undergraduate degrees. You can now get a 4-year undergraduate degree without having set foot on campus. This will allow UF to attract more students and for the most part, online tuition is the same, yet the delivery method is a lot cheaper. We will see more schools doing the same thing eventually.
No need to construct more buildings on campus to accommodate an increasing student population. Is guess the idiom of "if you can't beat them then join them" is now the winning strategy! Schools get a better return on their money by going the Online route.

Agree, perhaps we need an NP program ranking list that takes into account acceptance rate, those with lower acceptance rates are ranked higher (this is how US News compiles the undergraduate ranking). This would mean schools that take anyone who applies, such as for profits, would have their rank hurt slightly versus the more competitive schools. It would also take into account peer assessment, pass rates, graduation rate, and percent with a job post graduation. In addition it would rank full time faculty, research budget, percent classes with fewer than 20 students, and whether or not preceptors are provided. Online versus B&M should NOT be taken into account because as long as all the other parameters are good, course delivery shouldn't matter. I think that would finally force some schools to get their act together and end this bizarre notion that all NP schools are equal.