SICK of BSN Pedestal

[DUDERNGUY]

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we look at the 4 year universities instead? Why doesnt the BSN itself advance? Because taking an extra gym glass doesnt deserve it. Look at all the worthless pre reqs that you BSN's are taking over the ADN. It isnt making you a better nurse its all about the money the school systems are a business. We need to change the education system. SWAP out that spanish you are going to forget the second after the test and take some critical thinking. Be gone with that Open elective to take baking class and replace it with PSYCH. The problem is the ADN is a efficient degree with time/pre-reqs and the BSN is created to give the "big man" money. Sorry if you wasted 100k in debt.

why are hospitals going magnet? because the universities are lobbiest to the hospitals. Universites need there money and they dont like ADNs getting the jobs BSNs are getting for a fraction of the cost. Universities have paid, persuaded, and convinced hospitals to go magnet and it is not because 4 year nurses are better.

IF universities ever decide to stop the worthless pre reqs and uni requirements then maybe one day a BSN nurse would have a true advantage.

[sallyrnrrt, ADN, RN]

amen, diploma program, back in 1972

[dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN]

I agree. Never once in the real world have I heard nurses arguing about this. And I used to work in a magnet hospital that's one of the biggest in the Midwest.

No arguing, but I do work with several disgruntled ADN educated peers who are very frustrated/angry that they are now unable to transfer within the hospital (which went BSN-only recently) before finishing their BSN bridge and are having trouble even finding positions at other hospitals in the area because they tend to unfairly rank below BSN new-grads in the hiring matrix.

[Nurse_]

Personally, I think it's still about experience.

I have a BSN. But I respect those with ADNs even CNAs with decades of experience.

I think the big difference is PATIENT EDUCATION. We do it multiple times a day and BSNs have taken more education classes than ADNs. Patients stay in the hospital in a relatively short time, they need to be able to take care of themselves outside in order to stay outside. That's why it's important for us to imbed the education to them.

Don't get me wrong, I know ADNs are fully capable of it. It's just the training. We have to re-certify for our CPR, because we don't know if it changed or not, if we're still doing the proper training. That's how I see the difference as well. As nurses, we have to adapt to the change and make sure we are up-to-date with our skills/literature/etc.

If your facility adapted a new computer system, for example, you do it because it's necessary for the job. Nothing to do with who's better or not, it's just as simple as money, who the hospital needs to train and who's already trained.

[kalevra, BSN, RN]

I was watching a scene from a re-run of Scrubs the other day. In that scene, Dr. Dorian asked Carla the nurse where she went to college. "Oh, I didn't go to college", she said. Then Dr. Dorian laughingly said, "Well don't tell my patients, but I didn't either." Carla was outraged by the comment. I love that comedy, & that line made me think.

If there is a standard of education for medicine, there should be a standard of education for nursing.

I agree there should be a standard for education. It only makes sense to establish one.

The problem is we spend too much time bickering.

If someone/organization with power just set one then everyone else would fall in. NCLEX is an example that the profession has set national standards before. In theory we should be able to do it again.

Isn't it strange that in this day in age there are still diploma/certificate paper work you can file for to the BRN regarding sitting in for the NCLEX. I always thought those programs disappeared long ago, but I guess I was mistaken. They are still roaming about, like some endangered species.

[Bringonthenight]

I agree education is important but in my opinion job experience can be much more valuable. I'd work with an experienced old school hospital trained nurse over a new grad bachelor degree nurse any day.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I agree education is important but in my opinion job experience can be much more valuable. I'd work with an experienced old school hospital trained nurse over a new grad bachelor degree nurse any day.

Experience is, undoubtedly, important.

It is not a substitute for education. If nursing was a purely vocational profession than experience might trump education, but nursing is a knowledge-based profession (and its becoming more knowledge-based in a rapidly advancing healthcare field). It takes both experience and knowledge to be a good modern nurse.

[tavskeez]

I'm a recent Bachelors of Science educated Nurse in California. Before even applying to the clinical portion of Nursing i took Anatomy and Physiology I & II, a Philosophy series, a Psychology series, Pharmacology, an entire chemistry series before O-chem, Microbiology, Botany, Zoology, an entire English series, an entire Humanities series, Statistics, Human Development, Cell Physiology, Developmental Biology, General Ecology, and Mammalogy.....before taking one single nursing class.

This education allows me to attend a Masters program if i so desire, or perhaps a PhD program if i one day feel that i can give back by educating and transitioning students into our amazing field. I will never feel ashamed for this education. In fact, it is one of the highest sources of pride in my life.

I graduated in December 2012 and was offered a position late January 2013 with a starting pay of $42.90/hr. I am scared out of my mind. Will i be the best nurse on the floor? No, i wont even pretend to believe I'm more knowledgeable than the CNA with one day of experience. But what i do know is that i have the tenacity and gumption of sticking out college for five years and graduating with honors. I know that i mastered a didactic curriculum of nursing theory and skill. I know that wherever i go i will succeed. Whether this is intrinsic to my personality or a product of my education, i do not know.

Lets keep advancing.

[MunoRN, RN]

I don't think you'll find many who'll argue that education is good and more education is better than less. There is some confusion though about what differences in education can be assumed based on whether a program uses the term "ADN" or "BSN". Changing the name of an ADN program to a BSN program, without any actual changes to the program itself, has been proposed as a realistic way of moving from ADN to BSN-only programs. Which begs the question, is an ADN program really that different if all we have to do is change the letters (and cost) of the degree it produces?

[Palliative Care, DNP]

I have been the ADN. I am now the BSN and currently finishing my first year in a BSN to DNP program. I firmly believe there needs to be just one way to become a registered nurse. Our profession would have more respect given if we were a cohesive group. Some of the best nurses I have worked with are ADNs but that doesn't mean we should stay on the hamster wheel and keep churning out ADNs now because "we have always done that". Now you almost have to have a degree to work at McDonalds. Times are changing and it is time to step up. ADNs may end up only working LTC. LPNs have already been pushed out of my workplace and ADNs have been given a deadline to complete the BSN.

[NurseGuyBri]

MOM To 4 - I completely agree with you, well said! I do want to add a few things to this discussion. I'm concerned that people are too stuck on the letters. LET IT GO. RN is the only set of letters that matters right now. That being said, the different programs were created for reasons, and now it's time to consolidate. There is nothing wrong with anyone in the field right now who has their RN to be an RN. But, going forward, things need to change. Why? Because nurses are being popped out like pills in a LTC Med cart... I mean for real, all over the place. POP. pop. PoP. pOp. Nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse. It's time to realign ourselves. We *CANNOT* leave our fellows behind, however. We have to allow those who are experience to continue to be experienced, no matter how they obtained their nursing IN THE PAST. Change is about moving forward. From here on out, we have to go FORWARD. Stop going back!! My old boss is an ADN. So what? She was great and she works as a consultant AND SHE DESERVES IT!! :-) My new boss is a BSN. He's great. He makes good money and? HE DESERVES IT. I'm a DIPLOMA RN with a degree in something non-nursing. I'm great. Guess what, I DESERVE IT. I am in a BSN program. Not because I want to outshine the ADN or Diploma- it's because I want to learn more. That is it!

All of this being said, compared to other professions, we have to change if we want to stay up. A 2 year degree is a vocational degree. It's a practical degree - An associate of a professional. I'm not putting any ADN's down, I'm saying that is what an Associates Degree is designed for. That's why it's an ASSOCIATES. Can't change that, it is what it is... Bachelor's degree is an entry-level BACHELOR - one who is ready to run, wet behind the ears but full of base theory. A starting professional. That's why it's a BACHELOR's degree. Masters- You've mastered your subject. I could keep going. So, why is the associate degree- the vocational school prepared degree, not for a LPN? The bachelor, the professional, an RN? Makes sense to me. Coming from someone who is a diploma RN, you have to know that I'm not about being better or worse than anyone who IS ALREADY A NURSE. I think we need to stop going back and start going forward. Sorry about the long winded message, I hope the idea gets through.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

MOM To 4 - I completely agree with you, well said! I do want to add a few things to this discussion. I'm concerned that people are too stuck on the letters. LET IT GO. RN is the only set of letters that matters right now. That being said, the different programs were created for reasons, and now it's time to consolidate. There is nothing wrong with anyone in the field right now who has their RN to be an RN. But, going forward, things need to change. Why? Because nurses are being popped out like pills in a LTC Med cart... I mean for real, all over the place. POP. pop. PoP. pOp. Nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse nurse. It's time to realign ourselves. We *CANNOT* leave our fellows behind, however. We have to allow those who are experience to continue to be experienced, no matter how they obtained their nursing IN THE PAST. Change is about moving forward. From here on out, we have to go FORWARD. Stop going back!! My old boss is an ADN. So what? She was great and she works as a consultant AND SHE DESERVES IT!! :-) My new boss is a BSN. He's great. He makes good money and? HE DESERVES IT. I'm a DIPLOMA RN with a degree in something non-nursing. I'm great. Guess what, I DESERVE IT. I am in a BSN program. Not because I want to outshine the ADN or Diploma- it's because I want to learn more. That is it!

All of this being said, compared to other professions, we have to change if we want to stay up. A 2 year degree is a vocational degree. It's a practical degree - An associate of a professional. I'm not putting any ADN's down, I'm saying that is what an Associates Degree is designed for. That's why it's an ASSOCIATES. Can't change that, it is what it is... Bachelor's degree is an entry-level BACHELOR - one who is ready to run, wet behind the ears but full of base theory. A starting professional. That's why it's a BACHELOR's degree. Masters- You've mastered your subject. I could keep going. So, why is the associate degree- the vocational school prepared degree, not for a LPN? The bachelor, the professional, an RN? Makes sense to me. Coming from someone who is a diploma RN, you have to know that I'm not about being better or worse than anyone who IS ALREADY A NURSE. I think we need to stop going back and start going forward. Sorry about the long winded message, I hope the idea gets through.

^Message HEARD...and agreed!!! :)

[kalevra, BSN, RN]

I don't think you'll find many who'll argue that education is good and more education is better than less. There is some confusion though about what differences in education can be assumed based on whether a program uses the term "ADN" or "BSN". Changing the name of an ADN program to a BSN program, without any actual changes to the program itself, has been proposed as a realistic way of moving from ADN to BSN-only programs. Which begs the question, is an ADN program really that different if all we have to do is change the letters (and cost) of the degree it produces?

This is the first time i have ever heard of this proposal. The only real difference in the curriculum is that you would have to fill in all the classes for general requirement like art, philosophy, statistics etc.