Implementing BSN as entry to practice

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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We seem to go around and around in this discussion about the premise of BSN as the level for entry to practice, yet the bigger question of whether or not that is even possible seems to get ignored. The ******* contest (quantitative comparison of micturation velocity and accuracy) that these threads seem to devolve to would seem to be a futile exercise since we're discussing a goal that is arguably moot.

For those that think this is a viable option, how do you see this working in practice?

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
bsn only nurses? I am for it 100%, speaking from a financial standpoint only. considering the state that nursing is in with many new grads not finding jobs, hospitals cutting staff, the general public being fooled to believe that there is a shortage and puppy mill like nursing schools are pumping out thousands of new nurses every semester.

*** Some of those "puppy mill" schools you are talking about are BSN programs. I don't disagree with you that getting rid of the direct entry masters and ADN programs would reduce the number of nurses available and likely improve working conditions and pay those that remain.

this is the only way I can see to where we can bring nursing back to a more favorable balance with the supply and demand. grandfather all non-bsn active rn's, inform all the community colleges and on-line programs to close shop! I also believe that you do not need a higher degree to be a effective leader and to think otherwise is silly

*** It's worth noting that all those community colleges wield considerable political power and are unlikely to lay down and allow the crown jewel of their schools be eliminated without a fight. Especially considering the lack of difference between their programs and BSN programs.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

The CC I graduated from has a 97% first-attempt pass rate on the NCLEX, which is higher than our neighboring BSN colleagues. I've heard all the arguments about how BSN-educated nurses are better at critical thinking and clinical skills than the ADN students.

*** There is a reason that is what you hear about. Ever see those critical thinking and clinical skills measured? No of course you haven't. That is why the BSN only advocates harp on them. Easier to make their point with the unmeasurable.

I

've also spoken to several managers in our hospital who, if not for our Magnet status, would actually prefer to hire ADNs from my school over BSNs from the local university

*** I would be skeptical of their claims for a couple reasons. First nothing about Magnet prevents them from hiring ADN grads. Second Magnet is a passing fad, already being dropped by many of the better hospitals.

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Hunter Bellevue didn't revamp their program, they just took a year of pre-reqs and called it the "lower division" of the program, students still don't start taking Nursing classes until Junior year. Some programs say their BSN program is 2 years plus a year of pre-reqs plus a year of electives, and others say they have 3 years of program and 1 year of electives, yet they all have the same structure, it's just a matter of whether or not they call their pre-reqs part of the program or not.

Sorry, but we may disagree what to call it, but to my mind HB did a pretty substantial overhaul of their nursing program. From no longer allowing repeated prerequisite courses to switching to "essentials" of general and organic chemistry.

Unless one has lost the ability to read and comprehend, HB nursing students do begin nursing classes in their first year of the program (second year at Hunter College) . Hunter-Bellevue students now have six (6) semesters long with some sort of nursing class in each of those periods.

NEW GENERIC PROGRAM â€" Hunter College

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Sorry, but we may disagree what to call it, but to my mind HB did a pretty substantial overhaul of their nursing program. From no longer allowing repeated prerequisite courses to switching to "essentials" of general and organic chemistry.

Unless one has lost the ability to read and comprehend, HB nursing students do begin nursing classes in their first year of the program (second year at Hunter College) . Hunter-Bellevue students now have six (6) semesters long with some sort of nursing class in each of those periods.

NEW GENERIC PROGRAM — Hunter College

More stringent pre-reqs and requirements do represent improvements to their program, but they haven't actually lengthened the Nursing program to 3 years, they just took the standard 2 year Nursing program and mixed in a year of pre-reqs and electives, making it 3 years of mixed Nursing program and electives, and 1 year of electives. Compared to before when it was 2 years of electives and pre-reqs and 2 years of program. Either way it's still 2 years of program and 2 years of pre-reqs and electives, just in a slightly different order.

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Specializes in ICU.

Not all ADN programs are in "community colleges." My ADN program was through a traditional 4 year university. Same classes as the BSN's took. The only difference was a few more humanities and a couple of nursing classes, like "trans-cultural nursing." After I got the ADN and was working, I completed the BSN. Also, some of us had prior degrees; mine was a business administration/accounting degree. My point is that just because a nurse has a lowly ADN, doesn't mean she has no "critical thinking skills," or didn't learn enough in school~ many ADN nurses have far more in experience than a BSN could ever provide. I see the point in higher education, but I don't see the point in bashing ADN's because there is very, very little difference in the two.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Not all ADN programs are in "community colleges." My ADN program was through a traditional 4 year university. Same classes as the BSN's took. The only difference was a few more humanities and a couple of nursing classes like "trans-cultural nursing." After I got the ADN and was working, I completed the BSN. Also, some of us had prior degrees; mine was a business administration/accounting degree. My point is that just because a nurse has a lowly ADN, doesn't mean she has no "critical thinking skills," or didn't learn enough in school~ many ADN nurses have far more in experience than a BSN could ever provide. I see the point in higher education, but I don't see the point in bashing ADN's because there is very, very little difference in the two.[/quote']

^I think that there are a minority of "nursing representatives" that bash certain nurses; most of us NEVER know the difference, and most of us only care that we have someone in the trenches alongside us, doing our business. :yes:

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Everyone keeps ignoring the elephant in the room....

There are actually 3 levels of nursing:

Lpn

Adn Rn

Bsn Rn

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For all this talk about downgrading Adn to the Lpn level,why not just eliminate the Lpn title?

Downgrade Lpns to something else.

You can also eliminate Meds techs and replace them with Lpn's.

I really think the only way to do something effectively about this is get rid of all 50 Bon's and replace them with a national database.

There is no reason why an Lpn can hang blood in Texas but an Adn Rn in Nj cant without certs.

The same with education requirements. There i no reason an Lpn in Ny cant challenge the Rn boards,but they can in California(I am against this)

Same with Florida...an Lpn goes to school for 1 yr there but a Nursing assistant 6 months?

Why become a nurse aide then?

Several states dont recognise degrees from online schools like Excelsior.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Everyone keeps ignoring the elephant in the room....

There are actually 3 levels of nursing:

Lpn

Adn Rn

Bsn Rn

Can't ignore it...I was a LPN before I got my BSN.

When I joined AN is 2004, the hot topic was LPN vs. RN...now it seems to be replaced with ADN vs. BSN...LPNs seem to have found their place in many states, so the issue is making BSN the entry point and leaving LPNs alone.

Personally, as much as there has been historical discussion about eliminating LPNs and transitioning "2-year educated" (although no RN program is two years) RNs into "4-year educated" RNs, not every area has the means or incentive to do so; especially when they cannot meet the standards in having MSN-Doctorate prepared nurses to educate and evolve nursing education. The shortage is nurse educators, not nurses....and there lies the issue; we can't evolve nursing education when there are not enough bright, seasoned strong nurses to fill in those spots; also work-life, and personal monetary budgets come into play as well.

I plan to enter a post-baccalaureate program in my area to get a certificate in education, because I cannot see myself having to get a separate master's in education when I get my NP...I want to teach my peers, community and nursing students; I want to contribute to improving lives of patients and nurses; unless they find a reasonable way to provide grants to allow nurses to share their expertise and strength, then this will continue to go on; and this discussion has been going on for the LAST 50 years.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

I really think the only way to do something effectively about this is get rid of all 50 Bon's and replace them with a national database.

There is no reason why an Lpn can hang blood in Texas but an Adn Rn in Nj cant without certs.

The same with education requirements. There i no reason an Lpn in Ny cant challenge the Rn boards,but they can in California(I am against this)

Same with Florida...an Lpn goes to school for 1 yr there but a Nursing assistant 6 months?

Why become a nurse aide then?

Several states dont recognise degrees from online schools like Excelsior.

That is not going to occur...each state has their own needs to fulfill; it looks simple in black and white, but most of the time, gray appears.

Should the standards be upheld? Yes; however it depends on the representation of nurses in the states as well. In my state, we have a LPN, RNs, and MSNs on the BON regulatory committee; I think also a member has a MPH degree as well. Our state has recently approved for LPNs to handle blood products and RNs can determine irreversible death; and CRNPs can sign off on death certificates; I think broadening the nursing scope on each level is a good thing...I think of the needs of the population and and can see a reasonable solution by broadening our scope; that may not be the case in other states, but I don't know what another state's needs may be. I would love for each state to have the same practice acts for each nursing domain; including NPs to independently practice; sometimes it has to take EBP to put it into practice and "prove it" as well as continuously be involved with that process; then I can see that happening, as long as it's reasonable. :yes:

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