Frustrated in BSN program - page 9

So I am tired of getting treated like an ignorant, useless nurse because I only have an ADN and denied employment everywhere because I'm not a BSN. I get into a BSN program and start taking EXPENSIVE... Read More

  1. Visit  Susie2310 profile page
    0
    I can understand there may be many reasons why someone would be disinterested in pursuing a BSN. ADN and bridge to BSN were right for me when I did them around 17 years ago. My ADN program provided excellent clinical training and I have never regretted training there. It was the right time in my life for me to be in college. But during most of the years since then returning to college would have been out of the question. And today I am not interested in being in college and neither program would be right for me because of where I am in my life now and who I am today. If I was trying to bridge in to the same BSN program I went through today I would likely be severely dissatisfied (not just burned out after my ADN program) because I REALLY wouldn't want to be there now. So I can empathize with the people who said "No, I got very little or nothing out of it," or who are pursuing their BSN currently and are disinterested, or those who will be doing it but have little enthusiasm for it.
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  3. Visit  BostonTerrierLoverRN profile page
    0
    I know it may "kind of" be off topic, but not fully, and the reason I ask is because my curiosity is peaked by this thread, and the OP's frustration. So, if you find it distracting- please ignore me- no hard feelings.

    I did my BSN at my State's Public Medical Center's University. It was didactic/traditional 12 month Tr-Fri-Sat, every-other-week. (ADN-BSN). I just wondered what you guys think about the quality of those "online" programs vs. traditional Classroom/Lab?

    Reason I ask really is not why you would think (Old schooler bashing technology/non-classroom BSN), it's because there are some really prestigious Universities I couldn't have afforded to move to pursuing it, and it would be "less frustrating" at 'my' own pace. Then I could have had a Duke, NYU, Columbia, or Tulane Education/BSN instead of my Lil' Discount, public schooled'$1800/semester (then) BSN. But, for the record, I loved my year there, it was really fun, and I learned a great deal- and got networked for my MSN- that I never planned to have!

    P.S. Always know what your facility offers in BSN assistance- I accidentally got a BSN Scholarship from my Hospital's Healthcare Network by application for CEU assistance for RN-C, Lol! So I jumped on it

    Just seems an online program would be much less frustrating on time, gas money, etc. it may be $$$, I don't know- but sure they vary.
    Last edit by BostonTerrierLoverRN on Nov 26, '12 : Reason: Clarification
  4. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    1
    I think that sometimes......we all forget about auto correct or the epic failures of auto correct. I think we all need to be respectful of each other opinions, spellings, and grammatical errors.

    We can all "agree to disagree without being disagreeable" (Gerald Ford) and disrespectful. I am sure no one was pointing out a spelling mistake to "demean" anyone for we are all professionals....right? I, for one, know that my fingers.... and keyboard... get the better of me........AND....... I sometimes type while impaired........visually impaired that is......for I think if the the key board is far enough away I can still see it without my glasses (magnifying glass)....

    Sometimes, I am multitasking too much trying to feed a house full of 15-16 year old (boys and girls/I have one of each) I probably shouldn't be typing......but AN is my obsession. I normally don't engage posts but I would like to point out that we are not perfect....although as nurses we are expected to be......but before "we" discuss others spelling and intelligence we need to look to our selves first.....from a previous post......these were misspelled....
    brain work, high school, everything, accommodate I even read a previous post on the thread which mentioned the "dumming" down of college courses. Ironic error in spelling.
    We can all disagree with each other opinions without being rude or mean.

    I believe that the schools are "DUMMING DOWN" (misspelling intended) the curriculum to "prove" the ADN programs inadequate and to promote their advanced degree agenda. I come from that generation that, for the most part, all nurses started with the same education. There was much less bickering then...sigh. But as the hospitals began to "demand" the ASN degree nurses over the "diploma grads"......the diploma grads became defensive and fearful. Once again history repeats itself.

    Of course the difference between a BSN/RN program is vastly different than the program giving an ASN/ADN a bachelors degree and cannot be compared. One program is training a new nurse and the other is school one who is already a nurse. They are apples and oranges and have nothing in common other than the words...... Bachelors of Science in Nursing and the letters BSN.

    The OP is a nurse getting her BSN and it is difficult to see what spending all this time and money, in the end, going to do for you....a whopping 50 cents an hour???? It make you question why put up with the frustration. What will it really mean in the end. The ADN bridging to the BSN has a completely different program than the entry level BSN. It does make you wonder when youa re in the throws of frustration and bills......What exactly is this for? What am I going to gain from this??? When they already have a full time job and are happy at the bedside.

    Whether or not there are repeated mistakes in a casual forum has little to do with the subject of the thread......Although, I agree......"nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent."

    Let's stick to the topic at hand...the OP's frustration with her BSN bridge program.
    Last edit by Esme12 on Nov 26, '12
    tokmom likes this.
  5. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    0
    Quote from Esme12
    I think that sometimes......we all forget about auto correct or the epic failures of auto correct. I think we all need to be respectful of each other opinions, spellings, and grammatical errors.

    We can all "agree to disagree without being disagreeable" (Gerald Ford) and disrespectful. I am sure no one was pointing out a spelling mistake to "demean" anyone for we are all professionals....right?
    No, actually they did, I could direct you to the post in another thread. Turns out the person was a BSN grad lmao
  6. Visit  Ntheboat2 profile page
    1
    Quote from redhead_NURSE98!
    No, actually they did, I could direct you to the post in another thread. Turns out the person was a BSN grad lmao
    Oh, right.....and saying that BSN nurses make less errors because sitting at a desk isn't dangerous was said without any intent to be "demeaning," I'm sure!

    Either you really don't understand research if you think that someone did a study of bedside nurses AND managers to reflect the mistakes of bedside nurses....or you were trying to say that BSN nurses don't do anything other than "sit at a desk." For the record, you'll need to direct yourself further than that single thread to find where the "demeaning" began. Here's a hint: it didn't start with me.

    I love that the passive-aggressive behavior so common in real life among nurses spills over into the virtual world. "I wasn't talking about you." "This person." "That wasn't directed toward anyone at all." Right.

    Esme made some good points and there's really nothing else to add from here. So, once again, I'll bow out of this discussion....until next time someone wants to turn a totally unrelated thread into this same debate!

    Have fun!
    Anoetos likes this.
  7. Visit  Anoetos profile page
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    Or the old bromide: "BSN nurses aren't as well procedurally/clinically prepared as ADNs"

    I think we can be excused for accommodating the escalation.
  8. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    0
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Oh, right.....and saying that BSN nurses make less errors because sitting at a desk isn't dangerous was said without any intent to be "demeaning," I'm sure!

    Either you really don't understand research if you think that someone did a study of bedside nurses AND managers to reflect the mistakes of bedside nurses....or you were trying to say that BSN nurses don't do anything other than "sit at a desk." For the record, you'll need to direct yourself further than that single thread to find where the "demeaning" began. Here's a hint: it didn't start with me.
    I'm sorry that you read too much into comments. I intended nothing of the sort. I can assure you that if I meant anything by it other than suggesting a possible reason for the results, you'd have known it without needing 57 alternate theories of "What was she trying to say?"
  9. Visit  MunoRN profile page
    0
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Muno, do you actually READ what is said, or are you really that intent on saying the same things over and over?

    I'm not really believing what you said in your other thread about "unnecessarily stoking the adn vs bsn debate" because it's quite obvious that's exactly what you intended to do and you're obsessed with the topic.

    You say that the "top ranked program in the country" will accept a "4 page homework assignment" and considers it the same as a BSN, but forget to mention that they also REQUIRE a bachelor's degree.

    Then, you say the "top ranked program in the country" doesn't have a pathophysiology class, but fail to mention that they have a class called "Clinical applications of anatomy and physiology" which IS pathophysiology!

    Again, did someone force you to get a BSN?

    Again, did you ever give any advice to the OP?
    Yes, UW teaches how to apply A&P and Pathophys. principles to clinical practice, just like every ASN and BSN program does, I'm still not sure If you're under the impression that ASN programs don't include this as a central basis of their education?

    Again, all bachelor programs contain two distinct phases. Electives and then the major program. The Nursing program portion of a bachelor's degree (the part where the Nursing education is focused, is not seen as significantly different for an ASN program according to UW. To get a BSN, or any bachelor's degree for that matter, you need the elective portion, which is contained in any other bachelor's degree. If UW saw a significant difference in an ASN and the major program portion of a BSN, they would not accept an previous bachelor's + ASN in lieu of a BSN, that wouldn't translate, they would require a BSN (via ASN to BSN).

    In other words, ASN + bachelor's credits + essay = BSN (which includes Bachelor's credits), factor that out since it's on both sides of the equation, ASN + essay = BSN (with bachelor's credits in common for both.

    I chose willingly to get my BSN, and I'm glad I did, although I also realize that my education was not anywhere near as significantly different as some would think.

    If I were the OP I would consider directing my time and money towards an MSN, depending on what her future goals are.
    Last edit by MunoRN on Nov 27, '12
  10. Visit  MunoRN profile page
    1
    Quote from redhead_NURSE98!
    Maybe because those who are calling their BSNs useless actually had an ADN first...and certain people who like to throw insults at ADN programs have never set foot into an ADN classroom?
    In my state there are two Nursing consortiums where ASN and BSN programs have combined. If you're in a BSN program you take your OB/mother baby class at the community college campus, and ASN students can take the same class at the University, they're all interchangeable. So there are classes where BSN students sit next to ASN students in the same class, I'm a little skeptical 2 students in the same class are getting significantly different educations.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
  11. Visit  Anoetos profile page
    1
    "set foot in an ADN classroom"?

    I'm sorry, this makes no sense. BSNs do sit in ADN classrooms inasmuch as their training includes everything ADNs learn.

    Much of the rancor coming from ADNs on the subject seems to stem from a general inability to see the "usefulness" of the additional classes (whatever they may be) BSNs have to take. Their feeling seems to be that their training has been adequate, why undergo more schooling? This can't really be argued against.

    But a couple facts remain: like it or not, the profession is progressing, more and more hospitals are requiring a BSN for entry level nursing, additionally, other countries have standardized this (e.g. the UK and Canada, unless I am mistaken).

    Finally, nursing is important enough to warrant at the minimum a bachelor degree, which is the basic undergraduate preparation in any professional discipline. Only nursing lags here. This does not mean that ADNs are inferior, the variety of nursing education in the US indicates that ADNs and BSNs all come to the profession with different levels of preparation, more often though, the differences have to do with the nurses themselves, I think.

    I've been a bad boy in this conversation, I'll admit that and I am sorry for it, but most of the anguished insults seem to come from the ADNs. I have yet to see a thread started by a BSN telling ADNs that they're inferior or inadequate, nor have I seen BSNs espouse this view in threads. What I have seen is numerous threads either started by ADNs or ones in which ADNs weep and moan about how they're feeling pressured and darn it, they don't want to do what they don't want to do and it's all so stupid anyway. They sound like my teen age daughter.

    Ugh.

    Anyway, I apologize for my own part in this drama where I have been either dismissive or mean.
    wooh likes this.
  12. Visit  BostonTerrierLoverRN profile page
    2
    I don't think one ADN can speak for the entire ADN population any more than one BSN can speak for for the entire population of BSNs.

    I really hate generalizations made by educated people. There are people from each group with diverse feelings towards "higher education."

    I didn't doubt the importance of a BSN or I wouldn't have wanted one. I wish people would speak for themselves, and not assume they can stick a whole group on one idea.

    I have been through both programs, to get both degrees, still I can only speak for my views.
    gummi bear and redhead_NURSE98! like this.
  13. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    0
    Quote from Anoetos
    "set foot in an ADN classroom"?

    I'm sorry, this makes no sense. BSNs do sit in ADN classrooms inasmuch as their training includes everything ADNs learn.
    Apologies for failing to read the rest of your post.

    My point is that unless one speaks from experience maybe one should keep one's mouth shut? If a BSN sits in an ADN classroom figuratively speaking, then there is no difference in the core curriculum in your mind, is there? If it's really that simple, then there is no debate.

    Each program serves its purpose and is useful in a way for its users. Each program has its benefits and detriments which are up to the student to weigh. Each SCHOOL has its descriptions, clinical hours etc. set forth in its catalog, which is up to the students to READ! I'm willing to bet if the student cares that much they could get the course syllabi so they know they are getting a quality education.

    Truth be told, after the first job no one gives a rat's booty where you went to school, how many clinical hours you had or what your grades are. So some hospitals are going to BSN only. It won't last. And those hospitals may find themselves in need of nurses that will sit still for more than a year at a time, if you believe the reports of some here who say that these folks are sailing through getting their minimum years of ICU experience or what have you before going to NP school.

    It's all a cycle.

    For every "whiny ADN post" I'll show you a whiny person complaining about their 50K in loans from their bachelors program. You can go back and forth on that all day, but why bother? Have we not already established that venting posts are acceptable in this forum?
  14. Visit  MunoRN profile page
    0
    Quote from subee
    A bachelor's degree implies a liberal education- it's not an supposed to be an advanced trade school degree. If exposure to the liberal arts is a waste of time, then maybe physicians should just go from junior college right into med school. After all, what do they need history, literature or philosophy for if they just going to be a doctor? Actually why require a degree for anyone? An astrophysicist can just take some physic and astronomy courses at a junior college and then learn the rest on the job. Learning another discipline requires brainwork. What if all practitioners of the medical arts didn't have to take any of these pesky liberal arts courses? Your neurosurgeon could be up and running in 7 or 8 years out of highschool without any loans to pay!
    My original Bachelor's degree was a Bachelor's of Science in Biology. Had I just done an ASN, I would not have had to take any additional Liberal arts classes compared with what I took for my BS in Biology; English, communications, psychology are all required for any ASN program.

    Quote from subee
    Why even bother to work in a "profession" based on science when you haven't had a statistics course to evaluate whether a study is useful or useless?
    Statistics is a required part of all ASN programs in my state.

    Quote from subee
    If ADN students aren't learning ANYTHING in BSN program then either; 1. They are happy to remain limited or 2. The college has dumbed down everthing to accomodate a flux of paying students who have no business in university. I even read a prevous post on the thread which mentioned the "dumming" down of college courses. Ironic error in spelling.
    This is what bugs me, it's amazing how little we understand about our own educational system. Yet that doesn't slow us down from making blind assumptions based on information gathered from who-knows-where.

    A large number of ASN students already have a bachelor's degree (2 programs in my state require one just to apply to an ASN program), so it's not really accurate to claim they don't belong in a University.

    Now that we're 40 years into the ANA's push for BSN's, as well as the popularity of RN-BSN programs, ASN program curriculum has become increasingly standardized to BSN curriculum, which would explain why ASN graduates aren't seeing too much of a difference when they take an ASN to BSN program.


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