BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it. - page 15

While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10... Read More

  1. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    0
    Quote from subee
    I don't think I ever implied that it wasn't a good idea. I'm just saying that it's not going to save anyone money because they're taking the same number of credits. From what I read on this website and see posted at my hospital, jobs are NOT easy to come by so what's the big deal that you graduate a year earlier? Esmee 12 said in her post above that a 3 year program allowed students to enter the work force a year earlier than their peers. So what? You're not graduating with a competitive edge. If you're really lucky, you will be able to spend an extra year working. I've been a nurse for 40 years. Believe me, when you look back, another year of working as a nurse doesn't seem like such big money-maker in the grand scheme of things.
    Fair enough. I agree that shaving a year off shouldn't/wouldn't save any on tuition if the credit hours are the same. That makes sense. My point was, though, that cutting a year out of the equation is a HUGE deal to many of us. Some of us really do dislike school and one less year of school is, well, one less year. Many would gladly take as many credits at once as possible to shorten the length of time in school. It's doable. I get annoyed when some people (not necessarily you) claim that this is "impossible" or will result in bad nurses. People who say such things are those who cant handle such a demanding schedule. Don't hate on those of us who can.
  2. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    2
    Quote from favflu
    This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice. Teachers, social workers, psychologists etc, all have to obtain
    a master's degree to practice with their license. Speaking as a nursing professor, many of the students are using the profession as a tool, just to get ahead. The desire and passion are absent, which can contribute to inadequate care.I want all licensed registered nurses to acquire a BSN to practice. This higher level of learning can enhance the level of the profession by enabling nurses to integrate research and theory into their level of practice. If all 50 states would enforce this law, you would see a change in the delivery of care for the better.
    Right, because all those social workers and psychologists who spent 6 years in school only to make less than most ADNs and many LPNs CLEARLY made the best possible life choice.
  3. Visit  subee profile page
    1
    It's' not about the money for these people. Psychiatric social worker or psychologist with a nice private practice isn't anything to sneer at. AND they have a way nicer work environment than nurses.
    elkpark likes this.
  4. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    3
    Quote from favflu
    This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice. Teachers, social workers, psychologists etc, all have to obtain a master's degree to practice with their license. Speaking as a nursing professor, many of the students are using the profession as a tool, just to get ahead. The desire and passion are absent, which can contribute to inadequate care. I want all licensed registered nurses to acquire a BSN to practice. This higher level of learning can enhance the level of the profession by
    enabling nurses to integrate research and theory into their levelof practice. If all 50 states would enforce this law, you would see a change in the delivery of care for the better.
    So what are you saying? ADN RNs practice at a level of "pure incompetence"? I'm sure this is news to many ADNs working out there. I see you worked in med surg. I'm wondering how the ADNs and diploma nurses you've worked with would feel about this?thank God you where there to save their patients from such incompetence.
    tokmom, Overland1, and redhead_NURSE98! like this.
  5. Visit  nursel56 profile page
    1
    Subee I don't understand why a potential employer would see finishing the same coursework in 3 years rather than 4 for would see it as a disadvantage. Isn't it possible it could indicate someone with self-discipline and a drive to succeed? If the 3 years indicated "corner-cutting" I could see your point, though.

    Favflu's post - the bias and inconsistency reflected in it is exactly the kind of inaccurate and divisive propaganda from some faculty that perpetuates the us vs them mentality. The IOM report on the future of nursing gave apparently nothing but lip service to the idea of nursing education being a "seamless track". It shocks me that they continue to use words like "incompetent" and "uneducated" to describe those RNs who don't have a BSN.
    PMFB-RN likes this.
  6. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    2
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    So what are you saying? ADN RNs practice at a level of "pure incompetence"? I'm sure this is news to many ADNs working out there. I see you worked in med surg. I'm wondering how the ADNs and diploma nurses you've worked with would feel about this?thank God you where there to save their patients from such incompetence.
    My thoughts exactly.
    tokmom and Overland1 like this.
  7. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    6
    Quote from favflu
    This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice. Teachers, social workers, psychologists etc, all have to obtain a master's degree to practice with their license.
    Teachers do not have to have a masters degree.

    Also I'm just curious: Do any of these "professions" have to wipe butts as part of their job description? Do you think perhaps if part of my job is to put my fingers into the orifices of other people and break up poop, I don't really need a higher degree to do it? Think maybe we should leave the decision on getting a higher degree to the people who want to go do things other than getting barfed on?

    So, if I am required to get a masters to wipe butts, do you think nurses will be perceived by the public as "professionals?" Or just a bunch of mid-waged dummies who were suckered into getting masters degrees to wipe butts?

    Sure Bob, I'd LOVE to spend another 80K so I can work in a hospital and come home with fluids on my clothes! What prestige I'll gain! The public will FINALLY recognize me as a Very Smart Person!

    Oh yeah, I forgot, I don't give a rip what "the public" thinks. Half of them don't even know what degree you'd have to have to be a nurse. Or care. They just want a clean butt, and a Coke.
    mya612, tntrn, PRICHARILLAisMISSED, and 3 others like this.
  8. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    3
    This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice.
    *** Ya the problem with this statement is not only is it (deliberatly I am sure) insulting, but factualy inaccurate. I am an instructor in a hospital's Critical Care Nurse Residency Program. We hire both ADNs and BSN grads into the residency. We have been doing this for since 2005. Some graduate and make competent ICU nurses and some don't. We have been unable to predict who will and who will not be able to complete the high pressure program and be sucsesseful critical care nurses based on the nursing degree they come to us with. We have noticed that older grads with more life experience do better. The ADN grads tend to be older, as do the accelerated BSN grads. The traditional BSN grads have the highest drop out rate. Also BSN grads have the lowest number of completed contracts. For that reason BSN grads are no longer hired into the residency for the SICU, though they still are for PICU, NICU, MICU, ER & PACU.

    I want all licensed registered nurses to acquire a BSN to practice.
    *** Well you are certainly entiteled to your opinion.
    tntrn, redhead_NURSE98!, and BrandonLPN like this.
  9. Visit  Overland1 profile page
    5
    Why do we not just require PhD's for all nurses? Then we could be addressed as "Doctor Nurse..."

    Seriously, it looks like some in Nursing are really trying to do some serious damage to the profession by requiring advanced degrees. Must be (at least where they are employed) there is a glut of nurses that will continue for the coming decades. When those calls for such requirements come from the "educators", a conclusion can be easily drawn.
  10. Visit  PMFB-RN profile page
    0
    Quote from subee
    I don't think I ever implied that it wasn't a good idea. I'm just saying that it's not going to save anyone money because they're taking the same number of credits.
    Depends on weather they can get a job after graduation. If they got a job in my hospital it would save them at least $65K in wages that would not be lost working the fourth years rather than being in school. In addition I would think it would save money barrowed for living expences, at least $25%.
  11. Visit  favflu profile page
    0
    To be a substitute teacher, they need a bachelor's degree. To teach as a licensed professional they are mandated to have a master' degree. This should be in all 50 states. In my opinion, there's no excuse for higher education in nursing, to improve critical thinking and evidence-based practice
  12. Visit  subee profile page
    0
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    *** Ya the problem with this statement is not only is it (deliberatly I am sure) insulting, but factualy inaccurate. I am an instructor in a hospital's Critical Care Nurse Residency Program. We hire both ADNs and BSN grads into the residency. We have been doing this for since 2005. Some graduate and make competent ICU nurses and some don't. We have been unable to predict who will and who will not be able to complete the high pressure program and be sucsesseful critical care nurses based on the nursing degree they come to us with. We have noticed that older grads with more life experience do better. The ADN grads tend to be older, as do the accelerated BSN grads. The traditional BSN grads have the highest drop out rate. Also BSN grads have the lowest number of completed contracts. For that reason BSN grads are no longer hired into the residency for the SICU, though they still are for PICU, NICU, MICU, ER & PACU.



    *** Well you are certainly entiteled to your opinion.
    d-e-l-i-b-e-r-a-t-e-l-y deliberately
    f-a-c-t-u-a-l-l-y factually
    s-u-c-c-e-s-s-f-u-l-l-y successfully

    I do this not out of cattiness. Just to illustrate that a good education never hurt anyone..ANYONE.
    Spelling is important; especially when you're the teacher.
  13. Visit  subee profile page
    0
    Sigh......

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