ADN's being pushed out

Students ADN/BSN

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I find it interesting that they're on probation until their next review in 2014.

PMFB-RN, RN

5,351 Posts

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I find it interesting that they're on probation until their next review in 2014.

*** I think the associates degree PA programs are not long for this world. However, what I do find VERY interesting is that like RNs, PAs have multiple entry point options from associates to bachelors to masters but without all the angst multiple entry points causes in nursing. I have long been of the opinion that nuring has a low self esteem problem and see the ADV vs BSN issue as evidence of that.

FYI Stanford's PA program is an associates degree program and is not on probation. I actually work with a CV surgery PA who graduated from this program and he is absolutly top notch. He used to be a CVICU RN and now hold 2 associates degree and makes BANK. He takes call for all CV surgery patients and deals with whatever issues they have and the surgeon is never involved unless a trip back to the OR is called for

PMFB-RN, RN

5,351 Posts

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

Wanted to add this to my previous post. Stanford's PA program:

http://pcap.stanford.edu/admissions/prerequisites.html

Specializes in Aesthetics, Med/Surg, Outpatient.

I looked up your link. Even though it's offered by a CC, it is a certificate program, not an AD program. According to their information, there's ~30 something SH in science pre-reqs, takes 48 months to complete, and must already have at least 2,000 hours of direct patient care under their belts. Program is also under accreditation probation at this time.

My link was an example of CC PA programs. I'm not even gonna add the BS PA programs. The point is, as previously stated, they are kinda in the same "fight" as we are in determining their place in healthcare and the fact that they have multiple entry points to their careers.

My post was to show that "most" if not all the applicants to the AD programs had to have previous healthcare exp and/or a healthcare based career

Sent from my iPad using allnurses.com

PMFB-RN, RN

5,351 Posts

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
My link was an example of CC PA programs. I'm not even gonna add the BS PA programs. The point is, as previously stated, they are kinda in the same "fight" as we are in determining their place in healthcare and the fact that they have multiple entry points to their careers.

*** Except when reading the PA forums and talking to PAs thier multiple entry points doesn't seem to be an issue with PAs like it is with RNs.

jeli42

230 Posts

*** I think the associates degree PA programs are not long for this world. However, what I do find VERY interesting is that like RNs, PAs have multiple entry point options from associates to bachelors to masters but without all the angst multiple entry points causes in nursing. I have long been of the opinion that nuring has a low self esteem problem and see the ADV vs BSN issue as evidence of that.

FYI Stanford's PA program is an associates degree program and is not on probation. I actually work with a CV surgery PA who graduated from this program and he is absolutly top notch. He used to be a CVICU RN and now hold 2 associates degree and makes BANK. He takes call for all CV surgery patients and deals with whatever issues they have and the surgeon is never involved unless a trip back to the OR is called for

Just curious, do you know why he chose not to go the Surgical NP route and do ACNP instead? I am very interested in CV surgery and would like to know why he chose the PA route.

I think the reason there's not so much infighting is (a) compared to the number of ADN programs, the number of AAS/AS programs for PAs is almost nonexistent, and (b) I don't think there are as many PAs as there are RNs, by far, and it's simply not discussed. I think it's more of an issue for us because there's so many of us.

I also think it's because we are a traditionally female profession and after years of abuse and being treated like the hired help someone is trying to find a way to give us more equal footing with the rest of the medical world/elevate our status. Right or wrong. You all remember all that stuff about 'legitimizing the profession' and all that jazz a few years ago? I really think that's what started it. JMHO.

*** I think the associates degree PA programs are not long for this world. However, what I do find VERY interesting is that like RNs, PAs have multiple entry point options from associates to bachelors to masters but without all the angst multiple entry points causes in nursing. I have long been of the opinion that nuring has a low self esteem problem and see the ADV vs BSN issue as evidence of that.

FYI Stanford's PA program is an associates degree program and is not on probation. I actually work with a CV surgery PA who graduated from this program and he is absolutly top notch. He used to be a CVICU RN and now hold 2 associates degree and makes BANK. He takes call for all CV surgery patients and deals with whatever issues they have and the surgeon is never involved unless a trip back to the OR is called for

NOW I see what you meant by 'surgeon without a BS'. Okay. But he's still not a surgeon per se (and I'm splitting hairs and I know it - I'm doing it to make a point). He can't legally go around calling himself a surgeon, as that would make him a "doctor" and that medical designation is as protected as RN is. Impersonating an MD/DO is a crime.

Maybe that would make me look at an AD PA a bit different...I, like pretty much the rest of the country, tend to trust RNs. As I said, it's all in presentation. I've seen RNs with MS's that scare me....not to mention doctors...

bamaguy1989

47 Posts

As an ADN nurse, I got more clinical hours and have been told I seem to know more about what's going on than my BSN counterpart

Specializes in Psychiatry.

and your point.....????

OCNRN63, RN

5,978 Posts

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I hope you're right, but a couple I looked up didn't seem to require that.

And I wouldn't be comfortable. That's just me. An AD is not an MS, regardless of the courses. I'm sorry - that's just what I think. So any PA's out there, don't tell me. :)

There don't seem to be many of those programs, so my guess is there's a reason for it. I'd never heard of such a thing until I was properly educated and grilled a bit of crow in the process. Fair enough.

I still am baffled about the backwards IV. How in the world do you get the bevel faced round the wrong way without the patient coming unhinged? :) I'm assuming you mean the bevel faced the wrong way. OMG.

Oh no. When I worked in Day Surgery, I got a patient from the floor (I forget why) and when I checked her IV site it was in "backward." As in, the tip was facing the fingers. I shut it off, then I called the supervisor to come look at it because I thought no one would believe me if I wrote up an event report about a backward IV.

I don't like to write up another nurse, but she was obviously in need of some remedial education.

OCNRN63, RN

5,978 Posts

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
This is kind of what I said the night that one of our new grads threw a fit because it was her turn to be the patient care tech (when we have no tech scheduled, sometimes we have to use a nurse.) She got on the phone with our manager and threw attitude, yelling things like "I AM A REGISTERED NURSE. THIS IS NOT PART OF MY JOB." My comment was that I would be committing suicide before I get old enough for people that are HER children's age to care for me, since all of them will think they're too good and overeducated to wipe a butt.

So what did she think the rest of you were? Had I been her manager I would have told her not to worry about having to fill in as the patient care tech--she wouldn't have a job that would periodically require it.

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