ADN's being pushed out - page 26

I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired.... Read More

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    Nursing is the only profession which does not require a Bachelors for entry level. We still call ASN and diploma nurses professionals. Requiring the BSN would bring entry level nursing up to the level of other entry level professionals.


    BSNs should not be required for nurses who are already licensed and practicing or required for those nurses already in school. Schools should continue to offer diploma programs and ASN programs. I do, however, support the proposed requirement that going forward ASN or diploma nurses be required to earn a BSN within a certain amount of time after passing the boards. Some proposals say 2 years, some say 5 years, some say 10 years. 5 years would be my preference as middle ground between 2 years, which is too soon for some people and their pocketbooks and 10 years, which keeps nurses out of formal education for a long time and makes it harder to go back, especially for those nurses who didn't like school to begin with or found it hard to write papers, take tests, etc. BSN educated nurses are taught to function in a wider range of settings than diploma and ASN prepared nurses. They are also taught more critical thinking, including how to read research and implement appropriate changes in caring for patients, managing staff, etc. Diploma and ASN nursing programs do not teach to that level. In an increasingly complicated health system, with multiple treatment options and ethical issues, diploma and ASN educated nurses fall short in these areas.


    For the record, I got my RN license after an ASN program then went back for the BSN. Now I have an MSN and am working on my DNP. I didn't choose to go back to school because I love school (although it's not exactly like I was being tortured by going back). I chose to go back because I think it's important that RNs be educated and have critical thinking skills and are apply to take care of patients in a variety of settings. I also believe that nursing as a profession needs to standardize entry level practice requirements in such a way as to meet or exceed expectations of other professions.

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    Decided further discussion would serve no purpose at this time.
    Last edit by nursel56 on May 11, '13
    Esme12, sallyrnrrt, and HeatherMax like this.
  3. 1
    Quote from Isabel-ANP-BC
    Nursing is the only profession which does not require a Bachelors for entry level. We still call ASN and diploma nurses professionals. Requiring the BSN would bring entry level nursing up to the level of other entry level professionals.


    BSNs should not be required for nurses who are already licensed and practicing or required for those nurses already in school. Schools should continue to offer diploma programs and ASN programs. I do, however, support the proposed requirement that going forward ASN or diploma nurses be required to earn a BSN within a certain amount of time after passing the boards. Some proposals say 2 years, some say 5 years, some say 10 years. 5 years would be my preference as middle ground between 2 years, which is too soon for some people and their pocketbooks and 10 years, which keeps nurses out of formal education for a long time and makes it harder to go back, especially for those nurses who didn't like school to begin with or found it hard to write papers, take tests, etc. BSN educated nurses are taught to function in a wider range of settings than diploma and ASN prepared nurses. They are also taught more critical thinking, including how to read research and implement appropriate changes in caring for patients, managing staff, etc. Diploma and ASN nursing programs do not teach to that level. In an increasingly complicated health system, with multiple treatment options and ethical issues, diploma and ASN educated nurses fall short in these areas.


    For the record, I got my RN license after an ASN program then went back for the BSN. Now I have an MSN and am working on my DNP. I didn't choose to go back to school because I love school (although it's not exactly like I was being tortured by going back). I chose to go back because I think it's important that RNs be educated and have critical thinking skills and are apply to take care of patients in a variety of settings. I also believe that nursing as a profession needs to standardize entry level practice requirements in such a way as to meet or exceed expectations of other professions.
    I obtained my RN through an ADN program, and then bridged to a BSN program at a state university. The ADN program provided the foundation of my nurse training and is where I learned to think critically as a nurse providing direct patient care. The BSN program I bridged in to provided learning experiences, some of which I found very valuable, but while the BSN program supplemented my ADN training, the courses in public health nursing, advanced health assessment, nursing research, leadership, nursing theory, community health practicum, and preceptorship in a new specialty, along with college statistics, and a few extra humanities courses, did not provide me with such enhanced critical thinking abilities or other nursing abilities as to render my ADN training inferior to my BSN training, or to evidence my ADN training as insufficient to meet the needs of patients I would be providing patient care to.

    As an added note, in the final semesters of my BSN program, I heard students who had gone through the whole BSN program say that they had received hardly any clinical training.

    The ability to think critically and to deliver intelligent, good quality nursing care, does not begin with a BSN. Why would it? There is such a quality as innate human intelligence, and the ability to learn. Life experience is also an important factor. My experience is that the majority of the BSN courses I took were valuable, and contributed to my becoming a better nurse than if I had not taken them, but had I not taken the BSN courses my ADN training had prepared me quite sufficiently to think critically as a nurse and to provide good quality nursing care.
    Last edit by Susie2310 on May 11, '13
    sallyrnrrt likes this.
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    Quote from Susie2310

    Oh dear. I am curious as to why you presume to be such an authority on the critical thinking abilities and nursing abilities of ASN/ADN and diploma nurses. You sound as though you have allowed yourself to be influenced by a certain school of thought.
    As someone who has been through every level of nursing you would think she/he were well-qualified to speak on the topic.
  5. 0
    Quote from BostonFNP
    As someone who has been through every level of nursing you would think she/he were well-qualified to speak on the topic.
    One's own experience and beliefs does not qualify one to generalize about other nurses qualifications and practices.
  6. 0
    Quote from Susie2310

    One's own experience and beliefs does not qualify one to generalize about other nurses qualifications and practices.
    Oh good, so we can fall back on the data. Weren't you going to post some studies to support you position, I never saw them....
  7. 1
    Quote from BostonFNP
    Oh good, so we can fall back on the data. Weren't you going to post some studies to support you position, I never saw them....
    I have never said I intended to post any study. Your post is malicious.
    sallyrnrrt likes this.
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    This is one of those polarizing subject and one that is debated, discussed and argued AT LENGTH.....over and over again. We as nurses are bickering amongst ourselves and we need to stop. I have heard this debate since 1976 and it will continue until nursing decides that that there will be a one entry level of education.

    Until that time.....diploma, ADN, BSN or MSN direct entry allows one to take the boards....I mean NCLEX and license them as an RN. If that nurse is able to pass the NCLEX then they are a nurse just like the next nurse.

    While certain levels of education may allow different practice standards....one education isn't necessarily "better" then the next.

    I think we all need to be kinder with each other and stop the my boat is bigger/better than your boat when we all know that both boats float.

    allnurses promotes a good debate....it needs to be polite.
    mya612, AJJKRN, OCNRN63, and 5 others like this.
  9. 0
    So if there is no debate then where does progress come from?
  10. 1
    Quote from Susie2310

    I have never said I intended to post any study. Your post is malicious.
    There was no malicious intent in my post.
    Nurse_Diane likes this.


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