Are online ANP degrees destroying our credibility? - page 22

by jilljw 64,034 Views | 322 Comments

I was talking to a private practice doctor about an opening in his practice. Currently, I am employed by the hospital. He told me that they will only consider PA's due to having more of a hard science based training and longer... Read More


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    Like the post. As I have moved on through my hybrid program, I have realized that I like the format....some online, some in person. It is really important to choose the best format that fits your learning style. I imagine that poor results have come from a person choosing online education but needing in person lectures to learn and vice versa.

    What I would really love to see happen is for someone to develop a lecture dvd series for NP's to cover patho to assessment to differential diagnoses. That way we would have a resource to go to for audio/visual learners and to supplement. Take a book like Dunphy's Primary care and do a video form of it. Do it for a reasonable price and you've got a buyer here!
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    OK,so your years of prior RN experience does not matter? A PA can have an undergrad of basketweaving and then obtain a masters in two yrs... I cant believe he said that..Any rate just look for another opportunity that just meant that DR. wouldnt be an individual you wanted to work with.
    PS.no disrespect to PA's.
    Last edit by navynursejoy on Jan 21, '13 : Reason: adding more content
  3. 0
    To me it seems self-evident that online NP programs, especially when the nurses have experience going into the program, are successful. Think of how many online NP programs there were in 2009 and think how many more there are now!
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    Quote from mystcnurse
    I haven't read ALL of the responses to this question... but my initial response would be ABSOLUTELY. There is a lot to be said for having live, knowledgable instructors breathing down your neck, putting you under the gun, challenging you, teaching you how to deal with multiple types of personalities and personality disorders ... etc, etc. This, I believe, is especially true for new RN grads who are "accepted" into proprietary NP programs, online. HOWEVER, I also believe that there are those who are extremely self-directed and who may be perfectly adept to online education, because they will challenge themselves.
    Ouch. My program was "online". My instructors were knowledgeable, challenged me, put me under the gun and all that stuff. But then...how can that be? Ironically, my wife is in a brick and mortar program and she seems to, and indeed has to, be self directed. But again, how can that be?

    Quote from mystcnurse
    I worked with an RN who had just graduated from an online FNP program, and she had NO earthly idea how to listen to heart sounds, where S1 was heard, which valves she was listening to, or how to use an otoscope safely. And this was on a telemetry unit. Honestly, it was not her fault. No one had ever shown her, or questioned her ability in real life. She had been an RN for only two years and now had graduated as an FNP. What does that say about on line education?
    It says nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. Besides my DNP, I have a BSN and MSN. You know what the "S" stands for? Science. And science teaches us the follies of anecdotes being passed off as evidence of something. So it is a real shame to see people making generalizations that are meaningless and without any underpinnings of science or scientific method. Show me a program, any program, without faults, without room for improvement, or whose graduates are all masters of heart tones.

    Quote from mystcnurse
    The other factor involved here is the preceptors that the online students use. There are those preceptors who will take on this role, only to have another "warm body" in their office practice. There are also those who truly love teaching and value the education of the future generation of providers. So it depends.
    Depends on what? Are you suggesting that the quality of preceptors or their motivations are influenced by the program's delivery method? In many cases the process for NP students to find preceptors is the same regardless of their school being online, hybrid, or strictly traditional. I did all of my clinical rotations in Atlanta side by side with NP students from other schools. We ALL had to find our own preceptors. All of our preceptors took students from multiple schools that used multiple formats.

    Again, these posters that are making all of these harsh conclusions without ANY evidence whatsoever would be laughable if they weren't so harsh and unfounded. You have numbers to back up what you say? Then post them, please. Otherwise, don't accuse online programs of lacking academic rigor while you clearly are not applying any scientific process at all.

    Ivan
    Last edit by ivanh3 on Jan 21, '13
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    Ivan, I don't know that we can measure every variable at play here but we can all recall our experiences and pick up on the subtlety of the market. I also work in Atlanta and frankly, the pas around here are way better than the nps. Every time I have worked with a midlevel, I have preferred the pa and the powers that hire? They seem to be catching on to that and hiring nps.Now maybe you could sell me a story about how all np programs need to increase their academic rigor but in the meantime, having taken online classes, the issue remains clear to me: it's easier to succeed in online environments and thus, fewer people are weeded out of the programs.
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    You say the PAs are "way" better than the NPs. Please quantify. What standards are you applying? What outcomes are you measuring? If the best articulation you have is "way", that will simply not suffice. Measure "every" variable? How about just one?

    Quote from VICEDRN
    Ivan, I don't know that we can measure every variable at play here but we can all recall our experiences and pick up on the subtlety of the market. I also work in Atlanta and frankly, the pas around here are way better than the nps. Every time I have worked with a midlevel, I have preferred the pa and the powers that hire? They seem to be catching on to that and hiring nps.Now maybe you could sell me a story about how all np programs need to increase their academic rigor but in the meantime, having taken online classes, the issue remains clear to me: it's easier to succeed in online environments and thus, fewer people are weeded out of the programs.
    SycamoreGuy likes this.
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    Quote from ivanh3
    You say the PAs are "way" better than the NPs. Please quantify. What standards are you applying? What outcomes are you measuring? If the best articulation you have is "way", that will simply not suffice. Measure "every" variable? How about just one?
    Since this is the healthcare environment, qualifications include the diagnosis and treatment of disease and acute processes.My standards:1. Accurate thorough for complaint physical assessment/ exam.2 appropriate diagnosis.3 appropriate treatment of said illness.4. Timely appropriate discharge.5. Ability to identify patients of higher acuity and properly refer to md or consult md on higher acuity patient.6. Skills: neat appropriate thread used sutures and appropriate layers of sutures. Ability to i&d. Etc.Sadly, I have been incredibly disappointed by the skills and speed of our nps. Frankly, they are morons. I have seen them: only able to process one pt per hour, become confused by a parenychia (don't care what your background is), neglect to identify patients that need iv antibiotics for deep laceration, fail to take pedal pulses before splitting an obviously dislocated ankle, fail to provide appropriate antibiotic therapy etc.The pas are quicker, have better skills and do better assessments.I have worked in two different facilities and have interfaced with pas and nps as a patient and mother, and socially. Sorry but we need to rethink our graduate education.
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    Online programs are easier? Can your provide anything to back that up besides an opinion? Top universities are providing online programs...are those easier too?
    PatMac10,RN likes this.
  9. 0
    Quote from IrishIzRN
    Online programs are easier? Can your provide anything to back that up besides an opinion? Top universities are providing online programs...are those easier too?
    . You mean other than my experiences? I took some online classes and I have watched my coworkers take them for their Bsn. The fact is that I understand how it works. It's mostly discussion based with an exam at the end. If you get a 99 in discussion and a 74 on the one exam (the final), you end up with a b in the class. If you don't know the material, I have watched my coworkers have their kids post for them, their spouses, other nurses who are taking the same class take their quizzes, etc. all kinds of shenanigans.Then there is the product: makes no sense for an np to suck more than a pa...Prestige means nothing. I believe that these programs have several layers of graduates and are well aware of what sham products they are producing online. S o much subtlety...in learning from a preceptor of your choosing versus the university's choice, etc.
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    Quote from VICEDRN
    . You mean other than my experiences? I took some online classes and I have watched my coworkers take them for their Bsn. The fact is that I understand how it works. It's mostly discussion based with an exam at the end. If you get a 99 in discussion and a 74 on the one exam (the final), you end up with a b in the class. If you don't know the material, I have watched my coworkers have their kids post for them, their spouses, other nurses who are taking the same class take their quizzes, etc. all kinds of shenanigans.Then there is the product: makes no sense for an np to suck more than a pa...Prestige means nothing. I believe that these programs have several layers of graduates and are well aware of what sham products they are producing online. S o much subtlety...in learning from a preceptor of your choosing versus the university's choice, etc.
    I did a brick and mortar Psych CNS program and distance ed Psych NP at Rush. You will have both good and bad schools in both, however, at Rush we had a lot of case studies, same as we had in business school. It's more "real" than exams. It was also an advantage to be able to discuss things with people scattered all over creation vs in one locale.
    PatMac10,RN likes this.


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