Are online ANP degrees destroying our credibility?

[jilljw]

I was talking to a private practice doctor about an opening in his practice. Currently, I am employed by the hospital. He told me that they will only consider PA's due to having more of a hard science based training and longer residency. I have heard this before and brushed it off. Especially, considering that would only be of factor for new grads possibly. I brought this up and he gave me a second rejection with a whole new excuse. His practice as a whole were considering hiring NPs until a PA brought up you can get your degree online. He stated they can not take our education seriously with such low standards. UUUURRRGGGHH. I didn't really know what to say. Mostly due to not expecting that response. Either way he is not someone I would want to work for with that attitude. I want to know what other people's thoughts are regarding the online programs? Will it hurt our profession and the quality of our reputation?

[Mark Hill BSN]

Which state?

Mississippi

[Mark Hill BSN]

The answer is money. I am opposite of most in that I just finished an online degree with a well-respected university, and felt like the "quality" was terrible. Adjunct instructors for some of the classes didn't check into the class during the entire semester. Not one adjunct became involved in the discussion forum, and many of their notices and announcements were written more like a tweet.

For instance: A question that was posed "is there a systematic way you evaluate a 12-lead EKG?". If I were the instructor, my answer would be "RRAHBI". Rate, Rythm, Axis, Hypertrophy, Bundle Branch Block, Ischemia. Any instructor at the advanced level should be able to tell you how THEY approach this basic concept in their practice. This instructors answer "you don't really need to know this for the test".

Another comment from an adjunct "I am seeing this class for the first time also".

But I can tell you that one of the cardiologists I work with was summa cum laude at Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth University in the 80's. He went on to cardiology fellowship at Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center. But at the time, stents didn't exist yet, so he had to teach himself how to do all of the cardiac techniques we consider common now.

If he wants to look down on my online degree, ok. It will just make me try harder.

But I will tell you, accreditation is a money game also, and there are no state boards for advanced practice.

I agree the money does drive most things....I think my point in all this is, a nurse practitioner student or practicing clinician will be a good or as bad as they choose to be, and where they went to school will have little to do with this. I have been an RN for over 20 years and I can tell you there have been numerous times while working in ER that I would have the unpleasant experience of working with an NP who had very little idea as to what they were doing. Some of them went to very reputable brick and mortar schools. I beleive that the individual compitence levels of the individuals had little to do with where they went to school and much to do with their clinical compitence well before they started NP school.

[ashleyrobin]

VERY late to this thread, but I found it when looking up a few things I've found troubling/been questioning. I embrace the fact that people learn differently. I attended a "prestigious" brick & mortar ABSN/NP program after a successful 1st career. I have huge respect for those that can attend respected online/mixed block university classes & excel. I think online learning CAN be more challenging than in class, but it must be a rigorous with very self directed students. (Disclaimer: from I have seen of/from most of the for-profit online universities, their curriculum/instruction/grading model is severely lacking). The thing that unites me to many of my most respected NP colleagues, regardless of which/what kind of university we graduated??...We agree on the fact that our education was woefully inadequate & the level of knowledge required to pass the NP boards was substandard. There are classmates from "prestigious" schools I wouldn't let touch my family w/a 10 ft pole & colleagues from "sub-par" universities that I would seek out above all others. The difference is those I trust/respect are self-motivated learners bc (very few) MSN programs give NPs the education needed to truly function as APRNs. I finished my boards with more embarrassment than celebration...I felt as though I could've/should've been able to answer all of those questions after completion of my BSN...to think that those boards were the gate that separated sub-par students from practice?...not exactly comforting! (For the record, I took ANCC ANP boards). My general point is that we need to raise the quality & *standard* for core MSN classes, the number of required clinical hours & raise the bar on our entrance boards to ensure clinical competence. I've seen the argument throughout the thread "online & brick/mortar students pass the boards with similar percentages"...I submit that the problem is the low expectation of the boards, & that you can teach to a lower standard in any number of ways. I am immensely proud of our profession & so many of my colleagues, but sometimes you can take the concept of "nursing model" vs "medical model" too far & miss many of the necessities vital to each.

[Mark Hill BSN]

VERY late to this thread, but I found it when looking up a few things I've found troubling/been questioning. I embrace the fact that people learn differently. I attended a "prestigious" brick & mortar ABSN/NP program after a successful 1st career. I have huge respect for those that can attend respected online/mixed block university classes & excel. I think online learning CAN be more challenging than in class, but it must be a rigorous with very self directed students. (Disclaimer: from I have seen of/from most of the for-profit online universities, their

curriculum/instruction/grading model is severely lacking). The thing that unites me to many of my most respected NP colleagues, regardless of which/what kind of university we graduated??...We agree on the fact that our education was woefully inadequate & the level of knowledge required to pass the NP boards was substandard. There are classmates from "prestigious" schools I wouldn't let touch my family w/a 10 ft pole & colleagues from "sub-par" universities that I would seek out above all others. The difference is those I trust/respect are self-motivated learners bc (very few) MSN programs give NPs the education needed to truly function as APRNs. I finished my boards with more embarrassment than celebration...I felt as though I could've/should've been able to answer all of those questions after completion of my BSN...to think that those boards were the gate that separated sub-par students from practice?...not exactly comforting! (For the record, I took ANCC ANP boards). My general point is that we need to raise the quality & *standard* for core MSN classes, the number of required clinical hours & raise the bar on our entrance boards to ensure clinical competence. I've seen the argument throughout the thread "online & brick/mortar students pass the boards with similar percentages"...I submit that the problem is the low expectation of the boards, & that you can teach to a lower standard in any number of ways. I am immensely proud of our profession & so many of my colleagues, but sometimes you can take the concept of "nursing model" vs "medical model" too far & miss many of the necessities vital to each.

In the end, I think it all boils down to the individual, and how well they want to function in this profession and very little about what school they attended. Just like with any other profession, there will be good and bad people in all of them. Nurse practitioners are no exceptions to this. I too believe that very few schools can properly prepare a nurse to be a nurse practitioner. My best friend is an MD, and he told me the medical school didn't prepare him to be a doctor either.....he learned it as he went along.

[taurus099]

What online NP program did you do? Despite everyone's negative comments on here about online schooling, I am considering an online program...can you message me?

[chillnurse, BSN, RN, NP]

I think NP should have to take three sets of board exams. So should PA. If we are training to do the same job and all. One over anatomy and physiology, and pharmacology, the next a live session of seeing patients and writing soaps, and then a broad clinical exam. Make them as difficult as the USMLE 1-3 and we can have all the online programs we want.

[RobBSNRN]

NPs and MDs aren't the same thing and I don't think any NP is trying to be an MD. If that's what they wanted they would go to medical school.

What constitutes the scope of practice for each profession has changed and is continuing to change based on what the evidence based research shows and the law dictates. No way to reverse this back to the "good old days" before NP's existed.

Why would NP providers be forced to take another test that has not been proven to improve patient care to do the job they've already been doing safely since 1965?

[chillnurse, BSN, RN, NP]

We aren't the same but we do the same. And bc the recent slew of online programs hadn't been around since 1965

[chillnurse, BSN, RN, NP]

We aren't the same but we do the same. Minus surgical stuff. And bc the recent slew of online programs hasn't been around since 1965.

[RobBSNRN]

... Where is the evidence online programs produce lower quality NPs than the ones that have been diagnosing and prescribing since '65?

[chillnurse, BSN, RN, NP]

Did I say they did? No. But obviously it is making finding a job difficult for some. So the bar should be raised. If not just to prove our credibility. The for profit vs. not and non profit argument is more viable than the b and m vs not b and m.

[chillnurse, BSN, RN, NP]

Funny thing is the ones often complaining on here about not finding employment or preceptors are the ones most defensive about their program. A trend I assume ?