Flu Vaccine, enough already!

CapeCodMermaid, RN · Dec 12, 2011

No, klone is talking about the fact that you quoted the Declaration of Independence, when the post you were responding to mentioned the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

If there were no Declaration of Independence, there wouldn't have been a Constitution or a Bill of Rights.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Dec 12, 2011

I will gladly lose my job and nursing license before I ever tell someone what they can and can't do to my body.

Ok, that sentence makes zero sense.

MyUserName,RN · Dec 12, 2011

I haven't finished reading all posts yet, but I just wanted to say one thing...We are nurses because we want to take care of and protect our patients, if we do not get vaccinated we put them at risk. I didn't become a nurse to put my patients at risk...did you?

You are still putting your pts at risk, even with the vaccine. But if getting the vacc makes you feel better go ahead. But dont force it on others who choose not to.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Dec 12, 2011

The exercise of one's constitutional rights ends when such exercise encroaches upon others' well-being.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Dec 12, 2011

all true, but in terms of vaccination, much more apropos for measles or chickenpox than seasonal flu. the flu vaccine does not, in fact, decrease excess mortality in what we traditionally think of as the vulnerable populations (elders, children, cardiac, pulmonary, etc.). the stats just don't bear that out, even though it seems like such a foregone conclusion. therefore the whole premise is based on a false assumption.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Dec 12, 2011

As I'm sure you know and others have stated on this board, there are many strains and they choose which one will "most likely" be out during that flu season. They are not always correct. This time they weren't and we got the flu regardless. Thus, I have made the decision not to inject myself and my kids with poison to MAYBE protect us from the flu that year. In my opinion, flu vaccines are much different from other vaccines because of the fact that they are guessing which strain will be out and you MAY OR MAY NOT be immunized. So get your flu shot, fine. You and your patients MAY OR MAY NOT be protected by doing so. So if you care about your patients not getting the flu from you, you might want to wear the mask 100% of the time regardless if you get the shot or not since the shot may or may not keep you from being infected this year.

I have never advocated mandatory flu vaccines, so my question has nothing to do with that.

Do you consider all vaccines to be "poison?"

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Dec 12, 2011

It's a requirement at my facility and a condition of employment. Everyone who has had it gets a sticker on their badge and for those that were able to be exempt, they have to wear a mask while working.

Do-over, ASN, RN · Dec 12, 2011

I have had the flu one time, and I hope to never be even half that sick ever again. And, I was only about 24 at the time, fit and healthy.

I get my flu shot every year. My employer ALMOST requires it. If you don't get it, and the flu reaches a certain level in the area you will have to wear a mask.

As for other vaccines, the lack of vaccinations for childhood diseases does trouble me. For one, I (despite faithful vaccinations) do not seem to develop an immunity to mumps. So, I am hoping that others around me are vaccinated and are not walking incubators of a disease I cannot protect myself against.

As an aside, took care of a lovely gentlemen recently with a crippled leg and foot from polio in his youth. Reminded me of a few friends with parents crippled by polio, and a man that used to come and swim at the YMCA I worked at - he could move so much easier in the water... has the horror of these diseases faded too much?

nerdtonurse?, BSN, RN · Dec 12, 2011

I think Do-over has an excellent point. Mass vaccinations work at reducing disease because it reduces the number of potential hosts -- Measles can't get going if there's greater than a certain percentage of immune potential hosts (78% is coming to mind for some reason). Immunizations against things like polio, or smallpox, or measles work because there's not a big enough reservoir to keep the infection breeding. Polio is spread fecal to oral -- think about all the e.coli outbreaks, the listeria outbreaks --- those kill people as well, but when you see e. coli, that could just as easily be polio, if people stop vaccinating their kids.

I think we really have forgotten the horror of what happens when a new bacteria hits a population with no inborn immunity. But not to worry. Eventually, some bacteria or virus out there will mutate, drift or shift to the point where we will all once again learn this. The hard way.

The one lesson of history is...nobody learns from history.

MyUserName,RN · Dec 12, 2011

I have never advocated mandatory flu vaccines, so my question has nothing to do with that.
Do you consider all vaccines to be "poison?"

yes I do. But the benefits outweigh the risks for those vaccines. But flu shots are different. Like I said, you may or may not be protected with a flu vacc, you have to do it every year and it might not/probably wont do what is intended. IMO, not worth the risk. If to truly protect our pts we still should wear masks during flu season, that should tell you something.

AnxiousRNtobe · Dec 12, 2011

all true, but in terms of vaccination, much more apropos for measles or chickenpox than seasonal flu. the flu vaccine does not, in fact, decrease excess mortality in what we traditionally think of as the vulnerable populations (elders, children, cardiac, pulmonary, etc.). the stats just don't bear that out, even though it seems like such a foregone conclusion. therefore the whole premise is based on a false assumption.

a few pages ago i posted several links to scholarly articles and the cdc discussing flu vaccine effectiveness, here is more:

article showing that flu vaccine resulted in less severe pneumonia and lower long-term mortality: http://journals.lww.com/clinpulm/abstract/2011/11000/fighting_pneumonia_with_the_flu_vaccine.8.aspx

this article shows evidence for decreased flu in cancer patients: http://www.atmph.org/article.asp?issn=1755-6783;year=2011;volume=4;issue=2;spage=136;epage=137;aulast=wiwanitkit

safdar a, rodriguez ma, fayad le, rodriguez gh, pro b, wang m, et al. dose-related safety and immunogenicity of baculovirus-expressed trivalent influenza vaccine: a double-blind, controlled trial in adult patients with non-hodgkin b cell lymphoma. j infect dis 2006;194:1394-7.

ramanathan rk, potter dm, belani cp, jacobs sa, gravenstein s, lim f, et al. randomized trial of influenza vaccine with granulocyte-macrophage colony-stimulating factor or placebo in cancer patients. j clin oncol 2002;20:4313-8.

ortbals dw, liebhaber h, presant ca, van amburg al 3rd, lee jy. influenza immunization of adult patients with malignant diseases. ann intern med 1977;87:552-7.

goossen gm, kremer lc, van de wetering md. influenza vaccination in children being treated with chemotherapy for cancer. cochrane database syst rev 2009:cd006484.

hsieh yc, lu my, kao cl, chiang bl, lin dt, lin ks, et al. response to influenza vaccine in children with leukemia undergoing chemotherapy. j formos med assoc 2002;101:700-4.

mindlor · Dec 12, 2011

"We hold these truths to be ........ that all men are endowed by their CREATOR, with certain inalienable rights..." When one says one is an American it is assumed the person lives in the USA.
Roll up your sleeve and get the vaccine.

I disagree. But we can agree to disagree :) Did you not watch any Benny Hill???

Never Assume :)

I know that on the street people that have US citizenship generally refer to themselves as Americans but in a college geography class this will draw the wrath of the professor :)

I am shocked this thread is still rambling along lol. I am also shocked that there are healthcare professionals out there that dont get it....