Would you assist in abortions?

Riseupandnurse · Apr 6, 2004

I remember being in college in Wisconsin in 1973. The Roe decision was announced over the loudspeaker. All of us stood up and cheered. I did too. Later on I went to x-ray school. In A&P we dissected cats. Many of the cats were pregnant. I was really surprised that the unborn kittens were really, quite clearly, cats. It then occurred to me that, logically, unborn children were really, quite clearly, humans. My opinion on abortion changed completely due to that lab experience. Religion or other people's opinions had nothing to do with it. I was an agnostic.

I still fail to see why abortion is considered such a thorny issue. Either we are talking about a human being or we aren't. If we are talking about a human being, you just don't kill one, or assist in killing one, or let other people choose to kill one. If we aren't talking about a human being, what difference does it make how many times one chooses to get rid of one, or what the reasons are, or how far along in pregnancy the person is? To those who say it makes a difference how far advanced a fetus is, I ask: What is the logical cut-off at which a fetus suddenly becomes human? There is no logical cut-off; it's all a matter of opinion, and changes with advances in technology. Therefore many of these arguments are only matters of feelings. Not science and not logic.

When I was 31, I became pregnant for the second time. I was being treated with Valium and antidepressants as I was married to an abusive alcoholic. I had to quit the medicine and revise the plans for leaving him. I was told by two psychiatrists I would go insane. I went through hell but I didn't go insane. Instead, I became a nurse so I could care for others. My daughter is 20. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat. My right to choose ended when her humanity began. I have no right to kill another human being, and neither does anyone else.

Assist in an abortion? Never.

LilyVictor · Apr 6, 2004

Absolutely NOT!!:angryfire

rhiannonwolf · Apr 6, 2004

I believe that women have the right to choose, and I will gladly fight for that right till the end. I would reluctantly, but willingly assist if my expertise and services were needed. I am however very much against partial birth abortions though. A child has the ability to live outside the womb after six months. At that point, give it up for adoption. There is two problems with this argument though and I haven't been able to grapple with them:

1. If we ban partial birth abortions, the results are a slippery slope. Once that happens, this opens the door to illegalizing all forms of abortion, so I still tend to lean towards allowing it.

2. Who knows what the technologies will bring in the next fify years, but could most of you see that perhaps in time we would be able to sustain a fetus completely outside the womb without the need of the mother? This sounds very science fiction, but as medical science advances the possibilities are limitless.

But its because of the breakthroughs in science that this debate is so contentious today. One hundred years ago the Catholic Church believed that the sould of the child did not enter the mother's womb until around the fifth month. They called it the 'quickening'. If someone were to actually investigate this belief, they would find that it is around the fifth month that women begin to feel the 'kick' of the baby. Up until that point though, the church allowed for women to have abortions. It wasn't until x-rays and ultrasounds that allowed us to see the fetus as we do today that the Vatican changed its mind regarding abortions. Anyone can look this up in the history pages. This is not an 'urban legend' of sorts.

Ultimately I really do struggle with the pro-life/pro-choice debate. Women are not just 'incubators' as one other person on here put it, and it is the agenda of the pro-lifers to give more rights to the unborn than to the own mother. I am angered by many of the people out there who think fight for the pro-life cause, but as soon as that child is born, they want nothing to do in the rearing of it, or pay for social welfare programs that will feed it. I see this all too often especially in my early years of social work.

I will stop ranting now.

My .02,

rhiannon

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Apr 6, 2004

Women do have a choice. They can choose to not have sex, or they can choose to use birth control.
Be well...
The Mellow One

It is NOT that SIMPLE.

If the woman is raped, she didn't HAVE the choice.

fergus51 · Apr 6, 2004

If we aren't talking about a human being, what difference does it make how many times one chooses to get rid of one, or what the reasons are, or how far along in pregnancy the person is? To those who say it makes a difference how far advanced a fetus is, I ask: What is the logical cut-off at which a fetus suddenly becomes human? There is no logical cut-off; it's all a matter of opinion, and changes with advances in technology. Therefore many of these arguments are only matters of feelings. Not science and not logic.
.

The logical cut off is viability. No other living being is dependent on living inside another one in order to survive, except for parasites. That is a scientific argument.

I would suggest that saying something is alive because it looks just like something else is an argument based on feelings and not science or logic. Every coin has 2 sides....

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Apr 6, 2004

Women do have a choice. They can choose to not have sex, or they can choose to use birth control.
Be well...
The Mellow One

What sort of archaic, male-chauvinist statement is THAT?! :angryfire Contraceptive methods do not always work, as you must surely know. I certainly do; both of my sons were conceived despite the use of birth control devices and pills. I didn't "choose" to become pregnant either time, although I gladly carried both boys to term. Women who are raped sometimes become pregnant.....what sort of choice do THEY have in the matter?

And what about teen-aged victims of incest---how can that possibly be considered a "choice to have sex"?! Give me a break!! :rolleyes:

To answer the original question posed by the OP: No, I would NOT assist in an abortion, although I wouldn't refuse to care for a patient who'd had one. I have my own reservations about this issue; however, I would never in a million years presume to dictate to another woman what she should do about an unwanted pregnancy. And I will leave it at that. :stone

KMSRN · Apr 6, 2004

What sort of archaic, male-chauvinist statement is THAT?! :angryfire Contraceptive methods do not always work, as you must surely know. I certainly do; both of my sons were conceived despite the use of birth control devices and pills. I didn't "choose" to become pregnant either time, although I gladly carried both boys to term. Women who are raped sometimes become pregnant.....what sort of choice do THEY have in the matter?
And what about teen-aged victims of incest---how can that possibly be considered a "choice to have sex"?! Give me a break!!
Everytime a person has sex they risk becoming pregnant whether they use contraceptives or not. Like you said, contraceptives do not always work. So if you are going to have sex, you better be mature enough to accept all the consequences including a surprise baby. Of course I realize the personal responsibility model is not politically correct in this me-me-me society.
What choice do women who are raped have? (Rape victims comprise a very small portion of the millions of abortions - although they are the reason most often given in defense of it.) They can choose not to kill another and add to the devastation. I am not heartless, but having an abortion will not undo the rape and ultimately I think an abortion adds to the damage to the poor woman.

DETTA · Apr 6, 2004

Hi Jan,no need to say anymore on the question "when does a foetus become a baby?".After reading your post,who can question it.?!!?

Its an old cliche,however "Everything happens for a reason" and your story proves this.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Apr 6, 2004

:
What choice do women who are raped have? (Rape victims comprise a very small portion of the millions of abortions - although they are the reason most often given in defense of it.) They can choose not to kill another and add to the devastation. I am not heartless, but having an abortion will not undo the rape and ultimately I think an abortion adds to the damage to the poor woman.

That would be because if it were ever made illegal (highly unlikely), raped women would not have a choice in the matter.

Having an abortion will not undo the rape (no one ever said that it would, either), but quite honestly i couldn't a) be reminded that this child was conceived out of hate b) this child would wind up knowing his or her father was a rapist. I am saying this for myself, no where am i saying that this is the right solution for everyone, but a woman should not be forced to carry a child conceived from rape all because society deems abortion wrong.

And to answer the adoption option that i know someone will give as a solution, adoption is not as easy as some crack it up to be. Quite a few children grow up in an orphanage, and some of the living at these places isn't much different than a prison. Always on your guard, etc. Majority of adoptions have a happy ending, but there are some that don't.

yeyirn · Apr 6, 2004

I will definitely not assist in abortion...... Have a nice day!!! :chuckle

irishrose53 · Apr 6, 2004

I'm a middle aged nursing student with plenty of my own opinions. But I am still idealistic enough to believe that as a nurse I will always put my own beliefs on the back burner when it comes to caring for pts no matter what. A woman's right to choose is one thing. A nurses right to choose certain types of pts is another IMHO. If you don't believe in this procedure on a moral or religious level, I doubt you'd find yourself working in an abortion clinic. That's about as far as nurses right to choose goes I think. That said, I hope and pray that I have the grace to care for whatever pt comes through the door no matter how distasteful.

Lord, hear my prayer.

nursesarah · Apr 6, 2004

I'm still in nursing school. Recently we watched a video on abortion. In a very professional manner, the doctor on the tape went through each type of abortion in detail and with pictures. Needless to say, a lot of the girls in my class swung straight from being Pro-choice to Pro-life. I already considered myself pro-life and had told myself entering school that I would never assist in an abortion, and this video only solidified my views.

But then I started thinking, what would happen if abortions were outlawed? Women that are raped, abused, victims of incest, or 12yrs old would have no options but to carry a child to full term when they are either too young or emotionally scarred to deal with the stigmatization that comes with being an unmarried pregnant woman. Seriously....when you see a pregnant 14 yr old, do you honestly think, maybe she was a rape victim, or an incest victim? No way!!! Most people think she's a slut.

Now, I'm never going to get a job in an abortion clinic or a hospital that performs abortions,but I do want to work in a sexual health clinic (they don't perform abortions there where I'm from). So chances are I will encounter a young girl who was pregnant and wanted options, so it is my responsibility to give her all the options, including abortion. And I would counsel her to make sure she knows what she's doing. but most importantly, I would give her the support she needs without judging her.

Even pro-choicers have the tendency to be as self-righteous as pro-lifers. This isn't about someone's political agenda....this is about people who make mistakes and try to fix them the best way they know how. No one is perfect. Everyone is human.

Maybe I'm naive becuase I'm still a student who hasn't had 27+ years of experience in this field.