That spelled badly, contravesial thread about NA's... - page 4

Hmmmm, thinking hat on now... Factoids (being poorly contructed facts) -Nursing = what nurses do = The provision of care -Care requirements have difrent componencts (say IVI's and bed... Read More

  1. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Originally posted by fab4fan
    Good grief...there are good nurses, there are bad nurses, there are good aides, there are bad aides. Rarely do I have time to help an aide...we are so understaffed that I have trouble getting my own work done. An aide can't help me give meds, start IV's, chart, so yeah, I do expect that they will do the tasks on their job description. IF I have time and I see an aide that needs help, I will help, gladly. But unlike the aides, in my dept. new pts have to be seen by a nurse in 15 mins, so I'm operating under a time constraint, the aides are not. Time management comes into play here; though I'd like to help, most of the time it is just not possible.

    And when the aides always have time for smoke breaks, dinner, can get out on time, then I'm going to keep moving with what I have to do, with no break, and no dinner, getting out late.

    This is the reality of nursing. If being an aide is overwhelming, then perhaps being an RN isn't the right profession for that aide. It only gets harder, not easier, with a license.

    Nurses afraid of poop...give me a break!!

    I quoted fab4fan's entire post, because it is exactly how I feel.

    I have been a CNA. Being a nurse IS harder, and you have tons more work and RESPONSIBILITY than an aide does.

    If you continue on to nursing school, you'll find out. The hard way.
  2. by   l.rae
    Originally posted by CliveUK
    [B]I am an RMN, who trained originally as an RGN way back in the 80s. Back then, staff nurses didn't busy themselves with drug rounds and IVs and what have you to the detriment of basic nursing care. What has happened that RNs see themselves as "above" helping out with bed baths and catheter-emptying? I can't believe the wards have changed that much since 1989 (the last time I stepped onto a general ward), but maybe they have and I am wrong.

    . /B]

    Meds and IV's are NOT basic nursing care?????...certainly news to me.....my pts will not die without a bath, they may die without their meds and IV therapy....it's called prioritising...interesting concept it is.....l will help out any time l can,,,but l will NOT give a bed bath or do any other duty that is capable of being done by NA when my pts need meds, Iv's and treatments the NA cannot assist with.......sorry.....LR
  3. by   CliveUK
    My throat is jammed with people who have jumped to conclusions...help...can't breathe.

    I have been an NA on a surgical ward, an RGN student, a D and an E grade on elderly wards, an RMN student and a D, E, F and now G grade on acute adult psychiatry. You could say I have been on most sides of this particular argument.

    Of course, I have no problem with RNs doing IVs and medications - it would be stupid of me to take that stance - and yes, mea culpa, I missed the word "some" out of my original post. But what does strike me is that some of the newer RNs do seem to think that 'basic' nursing tasks such as bed-baths and bum-wiping are somehow not their domain any more. And I'll ask it again - how has this happened? When did the priorities change that - better qualify it here - for some RNs, technical aspects of care take precedence over the nitty gritty of nursing?
  4. by   KC CHICK
    I agree with l.rae. Sometimes I think our actions as RNs are interpreted as 'rude' when we don't do some of the care that you discussed, Clive. However, we do have a lot on our plate during our 12 hour shifts. We HAVE TO PRIORITIZE AND DELEGATE. If that means telling the aid that 'so and so' needs to be cleaned up, as we're dashing down the hall with a cupfull of meds, so be it.

    I've had a similar discussion with more seasoned RNs on my unit. They remember when nursing wasn't as technical as it is now. There is a lot more expected out of RNs today. Maybe that's why there's little time to perform the "nitty gritty" functions that they used to do all the time.

    And no, new RNs are not afraid of a little pooh. Why, just last weekend, I had the pleasure of performing a rectal disimpaction on one of my patients while a collegue of mine had to reinsert a rectal prolapse on one of her patients. Yummy. Don't know why....it was truely a BUM night.

    Anyhoo, I certainly help out when I can. The aides...wonderful beings that they are...usually tell me that they don't need my help and to go do what I need to do for my other patients. I love those gals!!!

    Anne
    Last edit by KC CHICK on Jan 31, '03
  5. by   karenG
    dare I say it but I agree with some of Clives comments- I do think that the basic nursing care gets forgotten and some of the newly qualified staff think it is not part of their remit! I think that the training is at fault. at the end of the day, we are there to deliver patient care- all aspects and we should be taking the holistic approach. ok, some of it is task led(I trained in the day of the back round!) but it all needs to be done and does it matter who does what? some bits of my job I would not delegate to junior staff but equally, I could do their jobs if push came to shove and I would! we have staffing level problems which means that we cant be interchangable- I remember when a ward would have 2 sisters, 10 staff nurses and 20 or so students- luxury these days. maybe its that we need to address rather than being territorial and defensive. its about caring for people......and that includes each other!!!

    karen
  6. by   ayemmeff
    Originally posted by FutureRN_Mandi
    Ayemmef, dear one, I think you are jumping to conclusions. i understand that starting IV's and pushing meds is part of your job. I'm going to say this as nice as I can. What would your job be like without CNA's? Huh? Think about it. in adition to all the nursley stuff, you would have to give showers, you would have to put patients to bed, get them up, do their vitals, feed them . . . and oh!! God forbid! Answering call lights! Aides do so much for nurses, and SOME nurses NOT ALL OF THEM, won't even answer a call light to help her aide who is maybe busying herself with another call light!

    Sorry,Mandi,but do you know me?Work with me? No? Thought not.Therefore I am not your "dear one".I will not be patronised by you, Mandi.

    Who's saying anything about doing my job without H.C.S.W.s(CNAs)I didn't. I'm well aware that I couldn't do my job day in and day out without them.However,I do sometimes have to work shifts without them,and do you know what? The patients are still clean,fed and comfortable at the end of the shift.

    What would your job be like without RNs?Huh?Think about it. Answer? Non-existant,there would be no patients left alive.
  7. by   silvermoon
    Now I've had sleep I can write with less vent and reading this thread highlights the attitude I got from the RN. I only wanted a hand to roll a patient onto a clean sheet and just got the brush off.

    I've worked on other wards where the nursing staff are fabulous and we all work as a team to get the work done. As a student we sometimes learn as much through bad practice as good. And thankfully I have had lots of great examples.
  8. by   ayemmeff
    edited for the third time to say: Nothing,I changed my mind!
    Last edit by ayemmeff on Jan 31, '03
  9. by   mageean
    Some strong views here. Despite the fact that my current post is as a Service manager, I like Clive worked at all levels from A grade to my current position and always felt part of a nursing team. As a Charge Nurse I would NEVER ask/expect anyone to do something I would'nt do myself. Registered Nurses should work alongside n/a's and act as role models.
    I increasingly feel that the shift in Training (from hospital based to Collage) has had an impact on peoples perceptions. There are a lot of people working in nursing who do not have Diploma/Degree status and it does not make them less valuable. Please value people for what they are and the contribution they make and pay less attention to status. having said that, RN's, be proud of your Registration!
  10. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    As stated before, I have been a CNA, an LPN and an RN.

    I have worked in a facility where there were no aides. Nurses only.

    Things went so much smoother, no conflicts, no insubordination, no having to fight to get things done. No having to look for an aide who was asleep in a pt's room, or out taking her tenth smoke break of the night.
    We nurses did it all. The pts were the cleanest most well cared for pts I have ever seen.
    Finally, we did get an aide. She was so fantastic, just exceptional. We nurses were so grateful to have her, we just totally kissed her butt. If I had a dying relative, I would want this aide to care for them. I wrote a letter to administration telling them so.

    However, I think that there are probably not any bad aides here reading this thread.
    I'm sure all the bad aides I've ever "worked" with are in jail, out getting one of the many hickies they always showed up to work with on their necks, or out pulling the wings off of flies somewhere. They can't be bothered with a nursing web-site.
  11. by   tattooednursie
    I never said anything about not having an RN! You are so jumping to conclusions. I really hope that you do not treat your aides like I think you do, becuase one day, they will say, "No, I'm busdy doing other things for you."

    About 4 years ago, I have made up my mind that I want to be an RN. After I became a CNA, I made up my mind that I will do everything I can to pass meds, do IV's, and do dressing, and ofcourse I will do whatever I can to make my CNA's jobs a little easier, because after all, they are helping me.
  12. by   l.rae
    Originally posted by ayemmeff
    Sorry,Mandi,but do you know me?Work with me? No? Thought not.Therefore I am not your "dear one".I will not be patronised by you, Mandi.

    Who's saying anything about doing my job without H.C.S.W.s(CNAs)I didn't. I'm well aware that I couldn't do my job day in and day out without them.However,I do sometimes have to work shifts without them,and do you know what? The patients are still clean,fed and comfortable at the end of the shift.

    What would your job be like without RNs?Huh?Think about it. Answer? Non-existant,there would be no patients left alive.
    very well stated......we are forced to work more and more shifts w/o NA too....makes me appreciate them all the more....however, NA's who have a problem with RN's that are too busy (there are some lazy in ALL job roles I know, but,) to help them everytime they ask...they need to get out of the field..it is only going to get worse bfore it gets better...IF it gets better...RN's are busier, fewer. pt's are sicker and more numerous.......just the way it is
  13. by   ayemmeff
    Originally posted by FutureRN_Mandi
    [B]I never said anything about not having an RN!/B]
    No,Honey,I said that!!!!

    and you didn't answer the question.

    You have no idea how I treat my co-workers,sweetie,absolutely none.

    Before you try to give someone a piece of your mind,be sure you can afford to lose it.

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