Do we have to give IV pain meds if patient requests when PO meds are ordered?
- 0Nov 29, '12 by VegRNI am an experienced nurse and am curious as to what you all think about this. If a patient is complaining of pain and they are specifically requesting IV pain meds but they are tolerating PO and have oral meds ordered, what do you do?
If you don't want to read the whole post, long story short, are we required as nurses to treat the pain based on what we think is appropriate given our professional judgement or are we required to give them the specific pain medication they ask for? I tend to think it is the former but in the absense of safety concerns, I will do the latter.
Had a patient last week that complained of knee pain, was admitted for an unrelated reason. Hx of sleep apnea, was supposed to wear CPAP at night and during all naps and refused. Pt received IV pain meds just prior to me coming on and was sleeping soundly for the first 4 hours of shift, woke during assessment, drowsy and fell back asleep, sleeping through machines beeping, staff coming into the room to fix them, per report often falling asleep during conversation when doctors are in room. VSS but this is when patient is woken, I wouldn't be surprised if he was desatting during periods of sleep.
Midway through shift, resting comfortably when I walked by room and dramatic display of pain when I entered room to assess. I gave him PO pain meds when he asked for IV pain medication because he was tolerating PO, they last longer and I was concerned about his level of sedation, I explained all of this to him. He was not happy about this and complained to the charge nurse about it. I kept titrating up his oral pain meds through shift, reevaled him every 30-45 minutes and he was comfortable and sleeping though waking much more easily than with IV pain meds.
I got the impression that the charge nurse wanted me to just give the IV meds to make him happy despite my concerns with his sedation level. I let her know that I didn't think it was the safest approach given previous level of sedation, hx sleep apnea and refusal to wear CPAP and that if she felt it was appropriate that she was free to give him IV medication. She did not.
When there are no safety concerns and patients request IV pain meds over po, I strongly encourage them to take the PO because it will provide longer lasting pain relief and generally most of them are going home in the next day or two and need to make sure their pain is controlled with PO pain meds. If they want IV pain meds, I will give them a dose now and closely monitor pain through the shift and titrate up oral pain meds so they are satisfied with their level of pain control.
I appreciate your thoughts on this, thanks so much.Last edit by VegRN on Nov 29, '12
- 3Nov 29, '12 by VICEDRNI have to say that I think we are obligated to give the patient the iv med. pain medications have been reviewed by patient and md. We have no right to deny people what is on their mar as a general rule of thumb. I say this as a patient as well. I recently had a baby and sat through six different nurses "theories" on relieving post op pain in new mothers regardless of what I wanted or the doctor ordered. It's frustrating and it's really not our business under most ordinary circumstances.On to your specifics here...what you described sounds like a reason to withhold all pain meds given the concerns for sedation. Further, if a patient is clearly abusing meds, I wouldn't administer meds either but would rather talk to md.
- 1Nov 29, '12 by RNperdiemWhere I work, we usually start post-op patients on IV meds, and then transition them over to oral meds. I work in ICU, so we are well familiar with IV meds. My approach is give the oral first, and you have the IV available for breakthrough pain between doses if you need it.
Your judgement sounds fine to me.
- 1Dec 1, '12 by eatmysoxRNIn this wonderful world of surveys I would suspect my job would be jeprodized if I denied IV pain meds. I always encourage PO first. I also give iv meds slowly on patients who refuse PO meds because they are also the ones who ask for a certain way of administration. I think pain is extremely subjective but sometimes it is ridiculous what patients do while simultaneously requesting pain meds.
- 1Dec 1, '12 by sapphire18 GuideIf a patient is too sedated for IV meds, then they are too sedated for PO meds too. If vitals are fine though, including resp rate, you still need to treat the pain. IMO, you should give the patient the form they ask for...the MD can decide whether to d/c the med if they want. This is why I like "med A for pain level 1-3, med B for pain level 4-6" etc.
- 0Dec 1, '12 by Rhi007As a patient I have only ever gotten IV pain relief twice: when I had appendicitis I got IV morphine 2.5mg PRN and post op shunt placement in recovery 5mg of fent and that lasted all night then I was on 5mg oxycodone PO PRN. I guess I'm one of those compliant patients which nursing staff love
- 0Dec 1, '12 by itsnoworneverWe only have iv/im meds to give so my replies are kinda off, but as a patient I prefer to tolerate pain. With both c-sections I hade a pca pump, never pushed it, instead asked for Tylenol. I have dealt with torn disks and ignored my Percocet for Tylenol. I don't like the effect of stronger meds. I guess a nurse would love me also. LOL. Just give me my Tylenol and we will have a great day!
- 0Dec 1, '12 by sapphire18 GuideQuote from Rhi007Just because someone requires more medication to adequately manage their pain, does not make them noncompliant. And I'm guessing you meant 50mg of fentanyl? I've never seen lower than 25 given.As a patient I have only ever gotten IV pain relief twice: when I had appendicitis I got IV morphine 2.5mg PRN and post op shunt placement in recovery 5mg of fent and that lasted all night then I was on 5mg oxycodone PO PRN. I guess I'm one of those compliant patients which nursing staff love