Why do so many nurses from the Philippines come to Canada/USA? - page 12

I hope nobody takes offense to this question because I certainly don't mean it in any negative way. I am just wondering why so many nurses from the Philippines are coming to Canada and the USA? I always thought the... Read More

  1. 0
    Quote from juan de la cruz
    You know you're talking about your situation in the Philippines, right? Because, there's no way in hell that the scenario you just described will happen in the USA. What you described is blatantly unethical and only seen in countries where substandard care is allowed.
    I'll try to make this my last post regarding this topic. It's been been causing me to log-in allnurses almost everyday and research about unnecessary information (like the American healthcare system). Haha. I've been searching the net for data about the uninsured American and the healthcare they receive and end up finding this thread in allnurses about uninsured Americans being DENIED of medical care. http://allnurses-central.com/us-poli...ns-419253.html You can even try google-ing for studies by different organizations saying that there are Americans not receiving medical care because they don't have insurance. If even after that overwhelming evidence that you are still going to deny what I'm saying, I can't envision anything that can change your mind regarding this topic. They exist. People who are getting denied of medical care because they can't pay-up exist in America.

    P.S. I stumbled with an Academy Award nominee documentary by Michael Moore entitled Sicko. You should check this out. It talks about the reality of your healthcare system.

    Also regarding the other topic, I must admit that the statement I said about Filipinos and their English is quite naive. I can't find any ranking whatsoever supporting my claim but I did found out that Filipinos rank 6th in the world when it comes to the number of people who speaks English as their first languange. BTW I do had interactions with Singaporeans, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Malaysians so far there's none among them who speaks better English than fellow Filipino friends.

    My apologies if I sound arrogant, there maybe some truth in that and I won't try to deny it. It's just that a lot of people think they can't be wrong because 1. they have more exp than you. 2. they are way much older. and it gets a little bit on my nerves. Must be a case of pride for them. I do respect my elders but I do rebut if I think what their saying is wrong. It's the age of evidence-based practice anyway. ;-)

    -about the out of topic post-

    Are you talking about Carbapenem-resistant K.pneumoniae? We do had a patient who died of septic shock with WBC soaring high even after a combination of a penem-class drug and a higher gen cephalosporin. Relatives refused referral to an infectious specialist because of financial reasons. We might already have that in PH and just isn't detected. Also there's been reports of NDM-betalactamases a few months back. Resistant strains are getting scarier.

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  2. 0
    OK guys, lets get this back on topic and stop the bickering.

    Further off topic bickering will be removed
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    XB9S if I could say one final word on this as well, and I'm not trying to have the last word at all:

    Lactamase, you can not judge a country's health care as an outsider and think you know enough based on what you're reading in the media. You have a lot to learn about US Politics. There is no such thing as balanced broadcasting in this day and age. Every item you read on the news can be viewed as propaganda motivated by the political affiliation of the author. The funny thing is you even associated this with "evidence" as if they should be taken as facts.

    When American healthcare was conceived, it was during a simpler time when unemployment is unheard of and Americans live a relatively prosperous life. My spouse is American, born and raised by a family who called Michigan their home for over a century. My in-laws are simple people who never went to college. Dad-in-law was an insurance saleman and mom-in-law was a homemaker. They lived a middle class lifestyle despite his humble job, lived in a 3-bedroom home they built, and owned new cars. He worked for the same insurance company throughout his working years and got a retirement pension from it. But by the time he was retired, he really didn't need his employer's health insurance because Medicare kicked in when he retired at 65. For years, this was common for many American families. But the world has changed due to globalization. Multinational corporations have taken over much of the world's businesses including the ones we depended on for employment for years in the US. Jobs disappeared as corporations sought cheaper labor overseas. This resulted in rising unemployment and many Americans losing their employer-sponsored health insurance.

    The other issue is the rising cost of health care. American health care is the most expensive to finance in all the developed countries. We have cutting edge treatments and we spend a lot of dollars in providing this high level of care. The link you provided showed people who are "denied" care by their insurance companies. You see, one of the solutions to contain the cost of healthcare was the birth and subsequent rise of HMO's or managed care. These insurance companies are run by people whose main objective is to limit spending to lower the price of healthcare provided to its beneficiaries. They can and do determine when enough is enough and a patient has received the fullest extent of effective treatment for a particular condition. For instance, an insurance company or HMO can say that a cancer patient has already received enough chemo and radiation and that any further attempts to treat will not be curative. The problem with that is that any physician (or even a lay person) can pull up new research on a novel treatment that has not been exhausted yet. Unfortunately, insurance companies can step in and say that this novel treatment is not necessary anymore and will refuse to pay for that treatment.

    Another thing to bear in mind is the fact that American health care has been moving towards evidence based practice for years now. What this means is that whatever is deemed effective for a particular condition has to be proven so by a great deal of research. For instance, we know from research that the time from door to percutaneous coronary intervention in acute MI affects outcome, thus, our hospitals have to meet standards in making sure that a patient with chest pain who presents to the ER is assessed in a timely manner so that if an intervention is warranted, the patient gets it in time. That is why the example you made about a patient with sepsis in the Philippines who did not get his antibiotic because he had no means to pay for it will never happen in the US. Starting an antibiotic and keeping a patient on it for as long as needed is standard of care for sepsis and a hospital will lose a lawsuit filed by a family member whose relative, insured or not, died because the antibiotic was withhled. Of course there are cases where an insurance company refused a treatment resulting in a patient's death. I would question whether the treatment withheld could have saved the patient's life and if it could have, then that's a case that lawyers need to be aware of because a settlement is surely in order.

    Finally, you mentioned home-boy, Michael Moore's movie, Sicko, which I saw. I share a lot of Mr. Moore's political views. We know him too well in my spouse's hometown of Flint, Michigan. In as much as I admire the man, you need to realize that he broke the rules of documentary filming by embellishing and twisting some of the facts in all his movies. I understand that he did this because he wants to rally the troops to the cause but the man is by no means a hero. He lives in luxury in a resort town in Michigan where only rich Republicans could afford to buy a place. The man portrayed Flint, Michigan as a decaying rust belt of a town which it truly is but not one time did he volunteer any financial assistance to help rebuild the dying town... but he sure made a lot of money from the movies he made about Flint.
    Last edit by juan de la cruz on Apr 13, '11
    Fiona59 and Ginger's Mom like this.
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    Can't help but remember this post in this article.

    PH: World's best country in business English - Yahoo! News PhilippinesHahahaha.
  5. 0
    Quote from lilaclover
    I hope nobody takes offense to this question because I certainly don't mean it in any negative way.

    I am just wondering why so many nurses from the Philippines are coming to Canada and the USA? I always thought the Philippines was supposed to be a beautiful place? Why does it seem everyone wants to leave it? It seems to be the most common country to see foreign nurses from here in Canada (west coast). Why don't they want to stay in their home country? I love visiting other countries but I don't think I would want to go through the hassle of permanently relocating to another country. I know I am probably being really naive here but I have always been curious about this. Here in Vancouver BC I think I work with more Phillipino nurses than fellow Canadians. Frankly its kinda sad considering how many Canadians are out of work...
    im a Filipino nurse and proud of it, honestly majority of us chose to come to Canada or USA or any other country because it pays more. you see, in Philippines the starting salary of a RN working in a private hospital is 12000 pesos a month that's merely US $300+ a month, we still have to pay taxes and health insurance,the take home income is almost as little as Php10000 that's US$250 a month, you're even considered lucky if you get a RN job that pays because RNs in Philippines has to do volunteer work just to gain experience in nursing field, sometimes we even have to pay the hospital so we can do volunteer work..you see Filipino families are close-knit family we help our family even extended family and distance relatives, we send our brothers, sisters, cousins, nephews and nieces to school, even college, we pay for our family's hospital bill when they get sick (especially health insurance is not that common in Philippines) we also buy house for our parents and car too..we are the family's bread winner, the provider, we do this so we can send money to the Philippines, to better the life of our family

    I know where you're coming from, I will feel sad too if Canadian,Americans or any other Foreign nurses will come to Philippines and take away our jobs. We meant no harm, we just want to provide for our family and i wont apologize for that. plus i think if you'll look at the much bigger picture, i think Canadians/Americans benefits too, we are caring nurses and do our jobs with TLC, and you see Filipino RNs in Canada/USA pay taxes too, we pay your country, we help your economy too. it's all fair in love and war and i think in work opportunity too
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    Quote from lactamase
    Can't help but remember this post in this article.

    PH: World's best country in business English - Yahoo! News PhilippinesHahahaha.
    that's a whole lot of baloney.
    nursel56 and Fiona59 like this.
  7. 0
    Quote from juan de la cruz
    that's a whole lot of baloney.
    The Pharisees did not want to believe and so no amount of evidence can convince them.
  8. 1
    Quote from lactamase
    The Pharisees did not want to believe and so no amount of evidence can convince them.
    ...the evidence is quite weak in this case, I'm afraid.
    nursel56 likes this.
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    The standard assessment tools used in academic institutions in determining English language proficiency are TOEFL and IELTS though there are other equally sound exams as well. These are examinations that are well researched and have proven over time to accurately assess English comprehension, grammar, fluency, and the test taker's breadth of English vocabulary.

    TOEFL's annual report of examinees based on country of origin showed that though Philippine test takers have scores above most other test-takers from other Asian countries in both the paper-based and internet-based exams, examinees from India as well as from other countries in other continents score higher. See: http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pd...L-SUM-2010.pdf

    IELTS results don't lie either. Test takers from the Philippines definitely do not earn the highest scores. See: http://www.ielts.org/researchers/ana...ance_2010.aspx

    This isn't a competition. I find it hard to agree with you as a fellow Filipino when I personally work with fellow nurses from the Philippines who have been here in the US for so long and yet continue to struggle with the English language. Many survive by working in units that are heavily staffed by fellow Filipino nurses so that they can continue to talk in their native tongues at work.
    Fiona59 and nursel56 like this.
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    I can't agree with the numbers without seeing how many Filipinos are taking the exams compared to other nationalities. It'll give the reason why the numbers are that way. I find it ridiculous that I'm having this kind of discussion with a fellow Filipino. I guess what they say about going abroad is likely to be true as well.

    Oh and I found this in IELTS dated a few years back.

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