the american dream: do not lose hope

World Philippines

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there are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of posts here pertaining to the current immigration and economic situation of the us. in addition, the situation is also being played out in the media all over the world (i would think). with all of these information out there, i think most, if not all, foreign nurses are already aware of the sad realities of wanting to work in the us.

i got the following lines from the novel the alchemist by paulo coelho:

"... the soul of the world is nourished by people's happiness... to realize one's destiny is a person's only real obligation...

and, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it."

so, to all my fellow pinoy rns out there who are still dreaming of one day being able to work in the us as a registered nurse, don't lose hope. do not be discouraged. you will meet a lot of people who get pleasure from splashing water over the smallest ember of hope that you may have. but, no one could/should ever tell you that your dreams are beyond your reach.

in my opinion, we are all brothers/sisters in the world of nursing and we should be benevolent enough to welcome and help our colleagues on their way in as we, ourselves, may be on our way out.

ignis fraternum eterna est

(the flames of our brotherhood will burn forever)

Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.
Are you saying that an American US-educated RN can work as a nurse in the Philippines?

I didn't think your government permitted that.

Maybe I am mistaken.

You are correct it is very hard form someone who is not a Philippine citizen to work in the Philippines. They will not even allow foreign nurses to sit the local exam

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^Yes Silverdragon, you need to be a Filipino citizen to write the exams.

However, if you are a foreign RN and you want to practice in the Philippines you can write the BON (board of nursing) they may issue you a permit to practice. In fact I think there was a foreign nun (part of a reliigious congregation) that was granted permission to practice as an RN.

Another example, you are an expert nurse (e.g. nurse practitioner) and you are an exchange professor - they will issue you a permit to practice as an RN nurse educator in the Philippines.

Or another example, you are part of a (pro bono) medical mission, you may apply and they will issue you a permit to practice.

Or if there is reciprocity between the 2 countries (e.g. USA-Phils) then you may practice in the Phils and vice versa. This is the law, but i don't know if "reciprocity" has been exercised.

That is what i remember. You may correct me if i am wrong. It was a long time ago since i read the law. Peace.

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You are correct it is very hard form someone who is not a Philippine citizen to work in the Philippines. They will not even allow foreign nurses to sit the local exam

Speaking from personal experience it is downright impossible to get a job here in the PH if you are a foreigner unless you are hired by another foreigner who had the money to start his/her own business.

Oh, sure, it is easy to get a visa which allows work in the Philippines but the reality is that most businesses will not hire you because they automatically assume that they cannot afford you (even when your salary request is common for the position and economy here).

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Please don't get me wrong here. I'm not heartless. If I were, my dream would not be to be a nurse. I also realize that I probably haven't seen or been through what a lot of the Philippines have been through, but in my eyes it still does not make it right to help others before we help ourselves. There are homeless people living in the streets here in the US who are being turned away from shelters at night because many of the homeless shelters are overun.

I want to address what you are saying here in parts.

1) I never accused you of being heartless, quite to the contrary, I think that the more you know about all sides of the cube the more impassioned you would be.

2) How can we help ourselves when we turn our backs on others? The concept of helping from without as well as within is what made America great to begin with. It was bringing in those who desired to work and had drive and passion to succeed in a land with new promise and new opportunity. When we build up a strong infrastructure with these kinds of hard-working people then the effect is kinetic.

This kind of socio-economic growth CREATES jobs, not steals them.

This promotes a more egrarian social outlook which can strengthen people to provide for those who cannot work in a more comprehensive way.

3) The influx of immigrant workers has absolutely no effect on the homeless population. The very mention of both in the same argument is to miss the core problem in our society that produces homelessness. There are radical changes needed to the healthcare industry, specifically with regards to mental health and the provision of care to veterans which can reduce or eliminate nearly 60% of the homeless population over the course of time. If you look at the statistics generated from the Center for Homelessness in America you will see that many who are homeless are incapable of caring for themselves at the basic level.

Bearing that in mind, doesn't it make sense that more healthcare workers coming in from other countries could actually facilitate a positive effect on the homeless and poverty-stricken population rather than negative?

4) Homeless people who can work but do not have jobs because of inaccessibility are not going to have jobs taken by nurses from abroad. You cannot convince me that college educated healthcare workers are homeless on the street in large numbers.

So basically what I'm saying is that logically your argument does not hold water; I know you have a passion about this and believe me I used to think the way that you do but working in the non-profit sector and dealing with poverty and homelessness face-to-face in the USA with both natural-born Americans and immigrant Americans and then living outside the US for as long as I have has taught me a lot about America's place in this world and why Immigration reform is needed to allow an ease of passage for qualified, educated and professional people to enter the USA.

I would like to also see the visa system implemented in Australia work in the USA wherein healthcare professionals who are employed and have a specific type of work visa are permitted to bring the children and spouse with them and the spouse is also given a work visa. There is a growing social problem in the Philippines because so many parents are having to split the family to work abroad because the parents want to provide a better life and better future for the children. I want to see these families stay together and prosper. This is a side of the immigrant worker that most Americans never realize or understand.

Again, I don't think you are heartless for not knowing these things... most of this perspective is completely unavailable for Americans via media or even social conversation as most Filipinos take the scenario for granted as a norm rather than an exception so it simply does not come up.

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Specializes in intensive care, recovery, anesthetics.
wow! i never thought that there would be so many people here who do not think kindly of philippine nurses.

i guess i was just naive to think that we all considered each other as professional colleagues. i guess i was wrong.

all i can say is, may God bless each and everyone of you and i wish nothing but the best for everyone!

happy holidays!

--------

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I don't think it's about thinking kindly of nurses from a certain nation.

When there is a large group of one nationality pressing for immigration, that will allways cause an uneasy feeling, in every country worldwide.

Then talking about that american dream, many here get the feeling that people/nurses from the philippines besides other countries are a bit let's say unreal about the current situation in the US and elswhere. And several posters try to explain. That goes for every visa applicant right now, like myself and has nothing to do with nationality, but since you guys are the largest group of wanna be immigrants on this board it seems that it's directed towards you only.

Many people are dreaming and why not, but it's important not loose sense of reality. Currently the situation for nurses wordwide is bad, because of hiring freezes in several countries and economy, so countries are closing their borders. I regret that as you, because it prevents traveling and discover of different nursing system as well as immigration.

Then another thought, many philipino nurses are nurses, because they want to leave the country, were pressed into that job by relatives or even were sent overseas, and not allways willingly. I work with several of those. That make me feel uneasy, because those nurses are not very happy in their job, nor in the country. They have to explain to their relatives, why it is not possible to send money home, because cost of living is so high, and income as a nurse is not. What seems to be a lot of money in the Philippines might be nothing in the country where it is earned.

In the countries where you want to immigrate many are nurses because they want to be, it their own free will and choice.

About philipino nurses generally, like nurses from other nations there are brilliant nurses, average and below average nurses. They are not better or worse than other nurses from other countries.

just some thoughts I had wo write down today. And I hope that there will be visas available soon for healthcare providers:)

5cats

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One may go on a mission to the Philippines and function in the role of the RN and under their US license or from any other country; but this is only for a very specific length of time and with special permission from the government of the Philippines. Usually not longer than a two week period and this is only with a mission that is santioned by the government as well.

It is impossible for any nurse that does not hold a passport from the Philippines to be able to even sit for the NLE exam, even if they attended nursing school in the Philippines and grew up there.

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When a nurse comes to the US from the Philippines and with the green card, then the immediate family members (spouse and children) get the green card as well and the spouse can work. Many times we see the spouse left home to work or the children left with grandparents since the nurse expects to be working such long hours to send money home, etc. Only when the nurse comes on a temporary work visa is the spouse not given permission to work but they can come under a dependent visa, usually the H-4.

Even with the treaty visas from Mexico and Canada, the spouse can come but they cannot work in the US. The treaty visa with Australia called the E-3 actually permits the spouse to work in the US.

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4) Homeless people who can work but do not have jobs because of inaccessibility are not going to have jobs taken by nurses from abroad. You cannot convince me that college educated healthcare workers are homeless on the street in large numbers.

I did not say that bringing foreign nurses into our country would keep homeless people from getting jobs. I posted about homeless people as an example of some of the sufferings that Americans are facing.

So basically what I'm saying is that logically your argument does not hold water;

You may think that my logic does not hold water, but in my eyes it does. Read on all these boards on allnurses.com and you will find thousands of nurses waiting on acceptance letters with more than half being turned down. Why don't we come up with a solution to get more nurse educators so that we can educate the thousands of Americans who would give a limb at the chance to become a nurse instead of bringing foreign nurses in. These foreign nurses may not be taking the bulk of our jobs but the family members that eventually come along with them are looking for employment. Anyway you look at it jobs are being taken from Americans who desperatly need them right now.

How can we help others before we help ourselves. When our economy is once again thriving, then we can think about helping others. Who is going to help America get rid of the trillions of dollars of debt that we are in? I don't know about anyone else but I haven't heard about any offers from any other countries. Does it not seem kind of wrong to others that nurses from the Phillipines expect our us to let them in our country to practice nursing but their Country won't allow us to even sit for their exam. Giving should be a two way street not a one way street.

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Filipino nurses have no intention of taking jobs away from Americans. We completely agree with you that in ones country, the citizens comes first. You say that nursing jobs now should be offered first to Americans, then let the hospitals,nursing homes and other healthcare institutions do that. We Filipinos cannot do anything about that. If they want to they can take back their job offers and stop recruiting from the Philippines. Give the jobs to Americans that was once offered to the Filipinos. It would be very hard for us but there is NOT a thing that we can do if they do just that. Yes, recruiting has come to a standstill but the job offer still stands for most of the Filipino applicants. What do you want us to do? Call off the job offer ourselves even if there is no word from the hospital about it?

We Filipinos dream of a better life as compared to our life in the Philippines. The American Dream is a better life for us. The kind of hard life Americans now are experiencing due to the Recession is not new to us. In fact, it is still a better life from our normal life in the Philippines. Lots of Filipino workers are enduring hardship across the world(even in Afghanistan and Iraq) so that their family can live a better life. The American Dream is still a better life for us, Recession or no Recession.

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We know there are lots of job lay-offs and increasing number of people with no jobs. But there are still lots of jobs for everyone, American citizens or not. That is if you are not looking for the job you LIKE or you are just not looking very hard.

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Why don't we come up with a solution to get more nurse educators so that we can educate the thousands of Americans who would give a limb at the chance to become a nurse instead of bringing foreign nurses in.

Now there is a solution I can get behind.

I am wholly in support of more educational opportunities and reducing the financial burden on Americans who seek out higher education.

Competition in the employment market is helpful though because it elevates the level of expectation for performance and the applicants will work harder to achieve this level of perfection. Additionally it can only benefit the patients, hospitals and nurses when this level of professionalism and quality care is raised.

Good call.

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Specializes in OR.

Does it not seem kind of wrong to others that nurses from the Phillipines expect our us to let them in our country to practice nursing but their Country won't allow us to even sit for their exam. Giving should be a two way street not a one way street.

Given that the Philippine government allows foreign nurses to work in the PI, I couldn't think of any hospital in the Philippines that could afford the salary rate of a US nurse.. . I couldn't imagine any nurse from the US would be willing to relocate and work in the Philippines (unless working under charity) with the same salary rate (around US$200 a month) as their local counterpart ...

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... Read on all these boards on allnurses.com and you will find thousands of nurses waiting on acceptance letters with more than half being turned down. Why don't we come up with a solution to get more nurse educators so that we can educate the thousands of Americans who would give a limb at the chance to become a nurse instead of bringing foreign nurses in. These foreign nurses may not be taking the bulk of our jobs but the family members that eventually come along with them are looking for employment. Anyway you look at it jobs are being taken from Americans who desperatly need them right now.

How can we help others before we help ourselves. When our economy is once again thriving, then we can think about helping others. Who is going to help America get rid of the trillions of dollars of debt that we are in? I don't know about anyone else but I haven't heard about any offers from any other countries. Does it not seem kind of wrong to others that nurses from the Phillipines expect our us to let them in our country to practice nursing but their Country won't allow us to even sit for their exam. Giving should be a two way street not a one way street.

This looks like a simple problem of supply and demand.

Only a few areas are saturated with too many nurses. Ex. Northern CA and north eastern part of the states. So there is a clear demand for more RNs.

The problem is there are not enough teachers and too many students. This is due to the pay scale for educators being too low compared to the hospitals. So US nurses are not becoming educators.

Solution: hire more foreign educated nurses who are more than happy being teachers.

By hiring more educators will mean more nurses, but to see an increase in the nursing ranks will take time. A nursing student will take at least 2 to 4 years before they are able to practice. So it begs the question "What do we do with the current need of nurses now?" Do we rely on the standard method of just forcing OT on the current overworked nursing staff? This method just hastens the departure from the profession and provides less than optimal quality care. I see limited options to cover the nurse/patient ratio in the interim before more US trained nurses will eventually get hired. I see the hiring of foreign educated nurses as a way to fill the void to maintain quality medical care. If not foreigners to help out, who is left to fill the void?

I thought the family members that come over on the HB-1 visas are not allowed to work. Only the primary person listed can work. I hope someone can correct me on this if I'm wrong.

To answer your question on the US debt. I believe the majority of the bonds are being bought up by Saudi Arabia, China and Canada. We buy the Middle East's oil to run our industries and fuel our large SUV's. We indulge in the cheap labor practices of China so we can buy cheaper goods. They in turn take the money and reinvest in the US debt. If this cycle continues, who knows what else will happen.

The US debt issue is a big problem. To put it in a nutshell, America will have to change its lifestyle. We can't rely on cheap foreign oil. We must rebuild an energy industry to make it more earth friendly and renewable. We have to start buying more US made goods. Not just US brands, but goods actually made in the US.

We have to limit our own personnel credit card and some long term debt. We can't rely on our credit lines to buy things, but on simple cash (this doesn't mean cash for houses or cars). When we don't have the cash to pay the full credit card bill at the end of the month. The debt is being financed by foreigners who get rich off our 18% interest payments. Will that mean more money out of our pockets? The answer is "Yes". Bottom line is we need to keep the money we spent on foreign oil, foreign goods and foreign backed interest payments in the US. This is a start to helping the country.

Now as for the reciprocity question. There is a program in the Philippines that will allow foreigners to work here on a short term basis, but not for the long term. You have to look at the reality of working in the Philippines. Given a chance would you honestly work in the Philippines on a long term basis? If you think you can't find US nurses to teach nursing students for $5,000/month. Do you honestly see a US nurse accepting a Philippine job offer for $150/month?

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