Marriage Is over - page 3

Hi guys I need some advice. When do you know your marriage is over? Ive been with my husband for 6 years and I just feel that there is nothing left. I feel that we have grown in different... Read More

  1. by   emmy
    I'm sorry 'Mellow one' but what year are you living in? It is not a wife's duty to have sex on demand (and vice versa). Sex should be something that both parties want, not an obligatory act.
  2. by   MellowOne
    Quote from emmy
    I'm sorry 'Mellow one' but what year are you living in? It is not a wife's duty to have sex on demand (and vice versa). Sex should be something that both parties want, not an obligatory act.
    In context, actually yes it is. In the context that it is a loving husband who understands when a wife isn't feeling well, when she is busy with children, when she has obligations with work or other such, that he respects that. When there is time and circumstance, a spouse should not deny the other.

    I'm not implying that a fat slob in a dirty t-shirt says, "Now woman." and the wife comes running. Marriage is a two-way street that involves respect and mutual sacrifice. Sacrificing an hour (or 2 or 3 or 8 :blushkiss ) to have sex with your spouse to fulfill his/her needs surely isn't too much to ask.

    When my wife and I married, she was a virgin. She was very naive concerning sex, and it was somewhere below cleaning the tub on her list of priorities. (She's from a traditional Asian family. We met when I was stationed overseas. Where she's from sex simply wasn't discussed other than you don't until you're married. She actually believed that if a woman enjoys sex, she's some kind of .....) If we had had sex only when we both wanted to, we'd never have had sex. A marriage without sex fails. It took alot of years, alot of patience, some mentoring by women in the church, and some rough times. Now we have a reasonably healthy sex life that we both enjoy, and a healthy marriage.

    As I've said. When a person's sexual needs aren't met within the context of his/her marriage, then that person will eventually find a way to meet those needs outside of the marriage. Maybe porn, maybe adultery, but ultimately in a way that's harmful to the marriage.

    Be well...

    The Mellow One
  3. by   Husband
    Mellow One, any idea what Paul’s wife thought about his Corinthians? If he had a wife. The Bible is sometimes not relevant or logical and the church has a poor record when it comes to women’s rights.

    Men and women shouldn’t be obligated to have sex, nor should they be required to provide an excuse when refusing. As Emmy said, sex should be something that both parties want. If they don't have sex then it's a problem but it's not a crime against God (which I don't believe in).

    I pity your wife for having to be mentored by women in the church. How degrading that must have been! Did she have to attend BJ classes? If I suggested such a thing to my wife, Christ would I be screwed, and not literally. I think I'd also come to grief if I suggested to her that cleaning the tub should be one of her priorities.

    And, if you think that you wouldn’t have sex at all if you only had it when you both wanted it, then I suggest foreplay. Perhaps you and your bride missed that lesson at church.
  4. by   jayna
  5. by   MellowOne
    Quote from Husband
    Mellow One, any idea what Paul's wife thought about his Corinthians? If he had a wife. The Bible is sometimes not relevant or logical and the church has a poor record when it comes to women's rights.

    Men and women shouldn't be obligated to have sex, nor should they be required to provide an excuse when refusing.

    I pity your wife for having to be mentored by women in the church. How degrading that must have been! Did she have to attend BJ classes? If I suggested such a thing to my wife, Christ would I be screwed, and not literally. I think I'd also come to grief if I suggested to her that cleaning the tub should be one of her priorities.
    Why is it the tendency of those hostile to Christianity to put words into the poster's post that aren't there? Your post was so filled with errors that I'll have to condense what response I'll grant. Given the contemptuous tone of your post to what I consider a rather polite and thought out post, it's a wonder that I waste my time. Nevertheless...

    First, Paul did not have a wife. It was Pauls own celibacy that is the basis for the Cathilic church's prohibition of marriage for it's clergy. That you choose not to make the Bible relevent in your life is your choice. Also, if you're going to be hostile toward a faith, at least learn what you're being hostile to.

    I've already explained my position on sex in the context of marriage. That you believe it appropriate to refuse your spouse sexual attention is your choice.

    Part of the duties of the church community is for the older members to mentor the younger members. In small groups, usually 5-10 people, a small mutually supportive community acts to help each other navigate life. It is a good thing.

    Did I indicate anywhere that I suggested that cleaning the tub be one of her priorities? In our home, we each have our own duties. My wife is a stay-at-home mother. She cares for the inside of the home. I do maintenance and take care of the yard and everything outside of the home as well as working 2 jobs to allow her to stay home.

    Doubtless you'll come back with more disrespectful drivel about Christianity, the church, and how I somehow want my wife to stay barefoot in the kitchen. If you want to be seen as reasonable or credible, argue against what is actually said in a respectful tone rather than arguing against a self-contructed strawman. Snide comments given in a disrespectful manner do not an argument make.

    Be well...

    The Mellow One
    Last edit by MellowOne on Apr 13, '04
  6. by   Husband
    Jesus MellowOne, I was being sarcastic and aware that a very long time ago a man who did not have a wife or a sex life wrote the rules for marriage that you quoted from the Bible - Damnation! There’s my contempt again.

    As an atheist I obviously don’t take the gospel as gospel and saw your quotes as Bible Bashing. I don’t take parts of the Bible too seriously or literally and I actually see parts of it as “disrespectful drivel.” If I thought that what was being said in your quote from Bible was appropriate advice then I wouldn’t have posted.

    I respect Christians that help others but I just don’t accept advice because it is quoted from the Bible. I attended a Methodist Sunday School and Church as a kid and they were all pretty self-righteous, intolerant and very nave. They had a paedophile running their Boys Gym Club.

    Just so you don’t think that I’m the Devil Incarnate, my wife is a full time nurse and we sent our son to a Catholic secondary school. My son is now at uni and he obtained a Black Belt in Ashihara Karate years ago. He sometimes goes to church with his mum. I don’t.

    My wife has a girlfriend who became a Buddhist a few years ago… Think I have issues with the Bible, imagine how I feel about reincarnation. She is trying to convert us. She will need to be very patient.
  7. by   live4today
    amen mellowone.......coming from a woman who is a believer in god, accepts jesus as my lord and savior, and the holy spirit as my comforter and friend....i totally agree with your way of thinking in the quotes below, and they are indeed very relevant to the survival of christian homes today whether we all accept or condone what the bible says to us about it. thumbs up for you in taking a stance in what you believe whether or not someone else believes it or not. we must be who we are, what we are, and live as we believe is right for each of us. where those choices take us in the end..........well...........the end will tell all. amen? amen!

    my current marriage is on the rocks. my husband retired from the military, moved overseas, and asked me for a divorce. he wants the divorce, so i'm letting him go. we've tried counseling from pastors, and social workers to only have it work for a time, then he reverts back into his usual pattern of adultery.

    i'm the one who wants sex more than he claims he wants sex, yet he's out there having sex with other women so that tells me he just doesn't want to be married, but "a player".

    when a person is determined to walk a certain destructive path in life, it is best to part company from that person in order to save one if not both souls involved while still continuing to pray for "the lost soul" that departs.

    my choice would be to save the marriage, but my estranged husband has chosen a different path for his life, so i move onward and without shame of at least giving it my best over the 14 years we've been together.

    we can only do our best, and when our best isn't good enough for our mate, then it's time to move on in peace. i'm at peace about moving on with my life "single again". i hope and pray he finds the peace he is searching for as well. we still talk, but the marriage is over.

    Quote from mellowone
    why is it the tendency of those hostile to christianity to put words into the poster's post that aren't there? your post was so filled with errors that i'll have to condense what response i'll grant. given the contemptuous tone of your post to what i consider a rather polite and thought out post, it's a wonder that i waste my time. nevertheless...

    first, paul did not have a wife. it was pauls own celibacy that is the basis for the cathilic church's prohibition of marriage for it's clergy. that you choose not to make the bible relevent in your life is your choice. also, if you're going to be hostile toward a faith, at least learn what you're being hostile to.

    i've already explained my position on sex in the context of marriage. that you believe it appropriate to refuse your spouse sexual attention is your choice.

    part of the duties of the church community is for the older members to mentor the younger members. in small groups, usually 5-10 people, a small mutually supportive community acts to help each other navigate life. it is a good thing.

    did i indicate anywhere that i suggested that cleaning the tub be one of her priorities? in our home, we each have our own duties. my wife is a stay-at-home mother. she cares for the inside of the home. i do maintenance and take care of the yard and everything outside of the home as well as working 2 jobs to allow her to stay home.

    doubtless you'll come back with more disrespectful drivel about christianity, the church, and how i somehow want my wife to stay barefoot in the kitchen. if you want to be seen as reasonable or credible, argue against what is actually said in a respectful tone rather than arguing against a self-contructed strawman. snide comments given in a disrespectful manner do not an argument make.

    be well...

    the mellow one
  8. by   Husband
    If people don’t wish to be offended by what I say about religion, they can pretend that I’m talking about someone else’s religion and still be happy that theirs the right one.

    Cheerfuldoer, if your husband had a usual pattern of adultery you should have left him. Do you have children? Would you leave him because he is boring?

    I’m an atheist married to a Catholic whose family came from Malta. Divorce in Malta is not an option and they would consider you a sinner for divorcing regardless of the reason. It’s not logical to me but perhaps MellowOne can point me to a relative Biblical text. Seriously MellowOne, what does the Bible say about divorce?

    Not having a Bible at hand, I typed “Divorce Bible” into Google and found a few opinions about the Bible, Women and Divorce:
    Woman occupied a subordinate position, one of inferiority and subjection. … marriage was a business affair, a mere question of property…. husband’s "most valued possession." … husband might divorce his wife, on the other hand a wife……… unfortunately a double standard of morality in matters pertaining to the sexes……. regarded as a piece of property, which, without great difficulty, could be disposed of in case the husband, for any reason, were disposed to rid himself of an uncongenial companion and willing to forfeit the mohar which he had paid for his wife. The advantage was always with the husband……… might have two or more wives or concubines, and might have intercourse with a slave or bondwoman, even if married, without being guilty of the crime of adultery….. and so on. How can I take this seriously and why would any woman?
  9. by   Love767
    Sounds like my relationship with my wife. In all honesty, I met her through a classified ad in a sleazy tabloid after being dumped by the love of my life. I was never even attracted to her looking only for cheap thrills to dull my pain (but how often does that stop men from having easy sex). In fact, it was only because I had the spine of a jellyfish that I didn't break up with her (I hate hurting peoples feelings especially to their face). Eleven years have passed (only three married) and we have a three year old son. I have come to realize that she is the most wonderful person on Earth ( of course "the rules" of being a man prevent me from even hinting this)! We have almost nothing in common except our love for our son and Stephen King books. My idea of a vacation is hiking, camping or star gazing hers is a nice hotel on the beach! I don't think I could face life without her, and I AM CERTAIN (enough said on that) that she has often felt the way that you describe here. Maybe love is a fairy tale for some people, but for us it's just love, and that's good enough, at least for me. I remember praying after that first girl left me (my dream girl) that if God would just send me someone who would love me no matter what that I would never leave them. Perhaps it was a coincidence, but my future wife called just minutes later. It's the best thing (besides my son, and of course HIS son) that God has ever done for me. I realize that this is not "how its supposed to be" it's not even how I would have chosen for things to be if I had planned my life out. Maybe that's why things don't always go as planned.

    If I was your husband and you were my wife this is what I might say: "When we first met, I could have cared less if you stayed or left, but you were 'taken' with me. It's almost ironic that now after all of these years that you should be so actively considering leaving me (in part because you realize how young and stupid you were in being obsessed with me), and I so distressed at the prospect. I will try to do better, but won't promise what we both know from experience that I probably can't deliver over the long term. Just know that I love you more than anything on Earth, but as you have said sometimes love isn't always enough. I've made my own bed and it's up to you to decide if I will have to lie in it."
    Last edit by Love767 on Apr 14, '04
  10. by   Husband
    Quote from Love767
    It's the best thing (besides my son, and of course HIS son) that God has ever done for me. "
    I'm such a heathen Love767 that took me a few reads of your post to work out that HIS son was Jesus and not your own grandson.
  11. by   Love767
    Husband, are you really an atheist or just an agonostic? Depending upon the day that you ask me I'm either a Christian or an agnostic. However, I wouldn't presume to declaire that God (or Nirvana for that matter) doesn't exist anymore than I can completely convince myself that HE does (at least as traditionally believed). Here's how I look at the issue. Both the concept of the universe coming from absolutely nothing (as is believed by those who advocate the Big Bang theory) and the belief that it came from a God (who always was) are both completely INSANE. Since, I am faced with two impossible, insane scenarios I choose the one which I prefer. Perhaps, it's no more than a version of Pascal's wager.
  12. by   MellowOne
    Quote from Husband
    If Seriously MellowOne, what does the Bible say about divorce?
    Going back to the disrespectful thing...when you jump on a message board and ask a guy if his church group is giving his wife BJ lessons, then yes, that's disrespectful.

    I'm sure that you already know the answer to the divorce question. The old testament spells it out rather clearly in the law. However, Christ himself said that divorce is justified only in the case of adultery.

    You can go to biblegateway.com and do a word search on any word that you want. Do a search on divorce.

    Predicting next question; "So Christ wants women to stay with abusive husbands?" No. Most of the time an abusive husband is also a man who gets some on the side. In any case, the NT is quite clear about how husbands are to act toward their wives.

    Your wife is a Christian. Ask her. It might start a dialogue that will improve your marriage.

    Be well...

    The Mellow One
    Last edit by MellowOne on Apr 14, '04
  13. by   Husband
    Love767,
    I tend to seek proof before I believe something is true.
    I don’t believe God exists in any form so I am an atheist not an agnostic.
    I think that:
    The Bible is a merely book written and rewritten by men.
    Not everything in the Bible is meant to be taken literally - For example, Jesus turning water into wine at a wedding probably just means he made the event special.
    Most Christians have a tendency to find loopholes for sexist text and improbable facts in the Bible.
    Some Christians are intolerant of anyone who differs or disagrees with them and often lack humour.

    MellowOne,
    Where can I search on the Internet to confirm that most abusive husbands are also adulterers? This doesn’t ring true but even if it is, to me that’s still indicating a woman may only ask for a divorce if a husband commits adultery but not if he abuses her or does anything else. My wife’s family told of female relatives in Malta who had been repeatedly abused by their husbands but who the church and state would not allow them to divorce. It was difficult to leave their husbands and they could never remarry. I don’t what it’s like there now as this was years ago before my wife’s family came to Australia.

    I DO discuss religion with my wife, along with gay marriages, abortion, nursing, finances, education and so on. Religion just isn’t an issue at home. She follows lessons taught to her by her family and church but she doesn’t blindly follow the ones she sees as sexist and ignorant just because they are in the Bible. She doesn’t ask me to go to church with her and I don’t ask her to go to a Computer Swap Meet or watch a Jim Carey movie. I was supposed to go to a Catholic Church session about marriage before I got married but my wife didn’t even bother asking. After a few knockbacks, a priest performed a special ceremony without a Mass in a Catholic Church. I would have married her anywhere and converted to a Catholic if she had asked.

    I was just joking about the BJ lessons and apologise. Was oral sex and foreplay discussed or have I read your post wrong and the mentoring didn't include sex? Regardless, I’m sure that my wife would see ANY mentoring from church members as degrading. She is a strong (some say stubborn) woman who tends to make her own decisions and doesn’t like to talk about our sex life or finances with others. Yes, both are OK.

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