What is the opposition to Universal Healthcare

CHATSDALE · Oct 12, 2008

not all people can afford to pay the higher taxes

universal health care in several european countries results in long waits for appointments and for trestments

one woman needed A/P repair and it was denied because it was determined that this was 'cosmetic' surgery

it is said that health care should be a decision between patient and their doctor but this will be wiped out if a government agency has to determine what is necessary or not

the government will decide what the nurses and other health care workers should receive in pay and benefits

BinkieRN, BSN, RN · Oct 12, 2008

doesn't everyone have a "right" to health care? it's easy to agree with a meaningless campaign promise such as "affordable health care for all".

universal healthcare amplifies all problems. it reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available. patients in the u.s. who receive "free" (taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as tylenol.

it reduces physician incentives to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.

it steals from your wallet to pay for my health care. yes, you do have a right to health care, just as you have a right to food, shelter and property. however, you have no "right" to force others to provide these things for you - all "free" medical care is subsidized through taxes stolen from other people. the quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker. as the poor and middle-class wait for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment.

it destroys your privacy. suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours. if you eat unhealthy foods or drive a motorcycle without a helmet, i have a direct interest in your business - you are going to see a provider on my tax dollars.

it destroys your liberty. when you blindly support a system that bestows power on politicians and bureaucrats, they will receive their orders from those with the most money and this will not be you, your friends or your family. the power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies.

~MIA~, ASN, RN · Oct 12, 2008

the government will decide what the nurses and other health care workers should receive in pay and benefits

:yeahthat:...nuff said!

I don't want the govt in any more of my business than they already are! :no: :argue: :nono:

PiPhi2004 · Oct 12, 2008

doesn't everyone have a "right" to health care? it's easy to agree with a meaningless campaign promise such as "affordable health care for all".
universal healthcare amplifies all problems. it reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available. patients in the u.s. who receive "free" (taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as tylenol.
it reduces physician incentives to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.
it steals from your wallet to pay for my health care. yes, you do have a right to health care, just as you have a right to food, shelter and property. however, you have no "right" to force others to provide these things for you - all "free" medical care is subsidized through taxes stolen from other people. the quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker. as the poor and middle-class wait for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment.
it destroys your privacy. suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours. if you eat unhealthy foods or drive a motorcycle without a helmet, i have a direct interest in your business - you are going to see a provider on my tax dollars.
it destroys your liberty. when you blindly support a system that bestows power on politicians and bureaucrats, they will receive their orders from those with the most money and this will not be you, your friends or your family. the power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies.

i enjoyed this! :yeah:

MissAnthrope · Oct 12, 2008

I wonder if it's fair for me to be a nurse and yet support universal health care..at least in theory anyway. Don't I spend most of my shifts internally complaining about people who abuse the system? We see it every day. But yet, I wonder sometimes, such as when I'm recovering a PTCA who couldn't afford his Plavix and blocked off his brand new stent...what if?? No one seems to have a problem with socialized health care when they turn Medicare age. They're happy to have it and they justify it because they worked and paid taxes too. To me paying even 50 dollars of taxes more a month would be worth it if I knew that if I got cancer I could get the treatment I needed. But yet, with Medicare, our tax dollars get used for CABGs on 90 year olds....or to detox someone who came in for something completely unrelated, who has no intention of quitting, and who will return to that case a day habit when they leave, when it would save us all money (and save the patient some life threatening withdrawal symptoms) to simply give them a beer a couple times a day. When hospitals don't get paid for their services, or don't get paid enough, and theres not enough money in the coffers, you know what they do...cut nurses...cut aides...cut secretaries...cut patient care quality. If there were at least some form of guaranteed payment, maybe we could afford more IV pumps so you didn't have to hunt them down all the time, or things like that. We have to take care of everyone whether they have insurance or not. The problem now is that most of the time they can't or won't pay and then the cycle continues.

Just adding my thoughts in there...not saying universal health care is the end-all by any means.

tencat · Oct 12, 2008

Hmmm.....have to agree and say I think healthcare should be available to everyone. Heaven forbid we tax the rich what they SHOULD be paying in taxes so that the middle class wouldn't have to pay for both the very poor and the very rich. Now, if that were done, then maybe health care could become something everyone could access.

I have known people from Canada who said that the waits for major surgeries, etc are too long, but they were very happy to be able to access that surgery if they needed it. Same for those I've known from Australia. Right now I have a friend who may lose her leg because she has no insurance to pay for a wound vac or treatment she needs to heal. She's too young for medicare and makes 'too' much money for medicaid. She's stuck. To me that is wrong. We as a country CAN afford to pay for healthcare. If more people had access to preventative care, I think that would save dollars in the long run as more people would see primary care physicians before they were so sick they'd end up in the ER.

As to taxes, we are pretty dang lucky in this country to pay as little as we do. Most other 'civilized' countries pay WAY more in taxes, and more of their people have a good quality of life.....of course the rich in those countries probably aren't as rich as those in the US....but I really don't see that as a bad thing. We are VERY greedy as a country.

just_cause, BSN, RN · Oct 12, 2008

Hmmm.....have to agree and say I think healthcare should be available to everyone. Heaven forbid we tax the rich what they SHOULD be paying in taxes so that the middle class wouldn't have to pay for both the very poor and the very rich. Now, if that were done, then maybe health care could become something everyone could access.

I'm curious where you derive your opinion from? This is from the Joint Economic Committee. I'm afraid you have been drinking the punch that main stream media has poured for you Seriously please look at this data and look for data rather then take their word for it.

The top 50% of income earners pay a whopping 96.5% of federal income taxes, while the lower 50% pay just 3.5%.
The top 25% pay 83.88% of federal income taxes
The top 10% pay 65.8% (these are people with an adjusted cross income of about $95,000 or higher)
The top 5% pay 54.4%
The top 1% pay 34.3% (these are people with an adjusted gross income of about $300,000 or higher)

My personal opinion - tax system is outlived it's usefulness and is overly complicated and suites those that support it, I'm a fan of Huckabee's fair tax. Everyone has their opinion but I have to correct a statement that is so far from reality.

US health care benefits from having competition - without there is no drive for new technology/medicine... there is no drive for individuals to take care of themselves. System does have problems - but outpaces every other system in comparison.

v/r

Sand_Dollar, BSN · Oct 12, 2008

I'm from Canada, now married and living in the US - been here 11 yrs. My Mom was working here and had to go back because her kidney failed. As soon as we arrived she had her healthcare coverage, which was great. However, she had to get into see an opthamologist and it took 8 months for an apt! Down here I could have got one in about a month, I think. She is 65 and was able to get a kidney up there, down here... I don't know if she would have been able to get one. Oh btw, she also had to go to the ER for anything because no doctors were taking new patients, the ER was finally able to find her one...after months.

I had my preemie son up there and he was in Neonatal ICU for 2 months. If we had him down here without insurance, it would have cost us well over 250k! We paid nothing for him up there. I see both sides of the coin. It is great when you could die if you didn't have any coverage, like my Mom. But I prefer having to pay a premium for myself and my family so we can get in when its needed and have excellent coverage. Two days ago we had to wait 2 hrs to get an ultrasound for my hubby because of kidney stones, no way that would have happened up there, it would have taken days.

To me there is no place better than the US, that includes the healthcare.

just_cause, BSN, RN · Oct 12, 2008

...She's too young for medicare and makes 'too' much money for medicaid. She's stuck. To me that is wrong. We as a country CAN afford to pay for healthcare. If more people had access to preventative care, I think that would save dollars in the long run as more people would see primary care physicians before they were so sick they'd end up in the ER.
As to taxes, we are pretty dang lucky in this country to pay as little as we do. Most other 'civilized' countries pay WAY more in taxes, and more of their people have a good quality of life.....of course the rich in those countries probably aren't as rich as those in the US....but I really don't see that as a bad thing. We are VERY greedy as a country.

Tencat, now that I have read the rest of your post I am frankly saddened. It is sad to see an individual so confused about his/her own country. I wonder how many countries you have visited - or how many countries that America supports and aids compared to every other nation - to include the entire UN. This type of lack of patriotism disgusts me to no end. I hope you find appreciation for your country - as it is unique in its government and freedoms it provides.

RedCell · Oct 12, 2008

I decided to start a new thread because the others take a completely different spin.
I am by no means well versed on this subject, but from my limited understanding universal healthcare isn't a bad thing. I personally do not mind paying higher taxes if my healthcare is already paid for. I'm a student now, but when I did have health insurance I rarely went to the doctor becuase of the deductible and I was already paying at lease $200 either a check or month. I also don't see how universal healthcare would be bad for hospitals, to me that means that the hospitals will get their money. I'm from Illinois and just this year one hospital nearly closed because they weren't getting paid for services rendered. I also saw in some threads that people would "take advantage" of universal healthcare? How does one take advantage of healthcare? And if more people did get regular check ups would that likely decrease the need for hospitalization? Wouldn't it be under preventive medicine (I thought that was what we nurses and soon to be nurses were promoting) These are just my thoughts. If you disagree that's fine, you are entitled to. I'm for it and would gladly pay the higher taxes, at least then I know some of the money that is taken from me will directly help me.

What is the opposition to universal healthcare???? Try examining the current states of healthcare in JAPAN, Canada, Europe, etc. One basic complication with socialism. Some people work and contribute. Some people dont work and still reap the benefits. Basic problem in the end....NOT enough money to cover the deadbeats. Sure you can keep taxing the Sh#% out of those who work, but eventually you still come up shorthanded. The reason we have the coolest toys on this side of the pond is because Capitalism beats out socialism every single time it is challenged.

ann945n, RN · Oct 12, 2008

Sigh

I fear universal health care

everyone has a right to healt care but that doesnt mean you are not responsible for the bill you render

I believe under 18 years of age you should get free health care, just liked education housing etc...

But once you turn 18 you know how that game is played so get some health care.

I dont buy for ONE MINUTE that health care is unaffordable. When I was in college I bought my own health coverage for 66 dollars a month. It wasnt the 'best' but it got me to the doctor and got me perscription meds.

Now if a low income person can afford a pack of cigerrets a day... well you see my point... people dont value health care or if they did they would find a way to fit it in to their budget

The day the governement starts regualting my pay is the day I quit!

And honestly Im not paying for adults to get health coverage.

Lets face it Socialism doesnt work! Unless working you mean paying around 60percent of your income in taxes. No thankyou!