What is the opposition to Universal Healthcare

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I decided to start a new thread because the others take a completely different spin.

I am by no means well versed on this subject, but from my limited understanding universal healthcare isn't a bad thing. I personally do not mind paying higher taxes if my healthcare is already paid for. I'm a student now, but when I did have health insurance I rarely went to the doctor becuase of the deductible and I was already paying at lease $200 either a check or month. I also don't see how universal healthcare would be bad for hospitals, to me that means that the hospitals will get their money. I'm from Illinois and just this year one hospital nearly closed because they weren't getting paid for services rendered. I also saw in some threads that people would "take advantage" of universal healthcare? How does one take advantage of healthcare? And if more people did get regular check ups would that likely decrease the need for hospitalization? Wouldn't it be under preventive medicine (I thought that was what we nurses and soon to be nurses were promoting) These are just my thoughts. If you disagree that's fine, you are entitled to. I'm for it and would gladly pay the higher taxes, at least then I know some of the money that is taken from me will directly help me.

UHC is a solution for countries already utilizing a socialized economic model. Surveys and polls reveal that most people under UHC models are about as satisfied as other health care models. That is to say, some are satisfied (generally the non utilizers and lucky healthy ones) and some are not satified (the utilizers and unlucky unhealthy ones)

This should show that really, there is no great magical cure for a health care system. Throwing billions of dollars into restructuring will more than likely just result in another massive government entity.

Health care will always be unique, unpredictable and expensive. It doesn't become "magically cheaper" just because it is universal.

I will not even broach the subject of taxation and liberty here. Far too many people seem to take comfort in giving up their rights to decide what path they take in life. So they leave it up to ambitious "agents" to decide for them.

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Having said that, I would like to see medicare and medicaid restructured and revitalized (not so much with additional money, but with sense). I do not feel that we could or should do away with these entities, to protect the underprivileged, unable or elderly.

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I think you are getting off of the point to question her patriotism. We are talking about one segment of America, health care and just because she feels that we are greedy (which we are) and that our system is no where near perfect (which it isn't) doesn't mean she doesn't appreciate America. In my opinion you are way to critical. Anyway, I still think univeral healthcare is still a good idea. I don't think it would thwart progress in medicine, drugs or any other advancements. I pay taxes that fund a war I am totally against, and taxes support many things that people are against, that's nothing new. I still agree that healthcare should be universal. People go to the ER because they do not have healthcare and that's the only way they will get treated, which is sad. I feel that everyone should have access and not only in dire situations. As far as getting an appt. I had insurance and it still took months before I could get an appt. It seems to me if more people had real access to care the need for all health care professionals would increase, because more people need the service. As far as government deciding what we should get paid, that's when our representatives would have to fight for us and negotiate ( if that even would be an issue).

And for anyone trying to say i dont' appreciate my country because I don't support the war should take a hard look at themselves. I can still respect and appreciate my country even though I don't agree with what government has decided to do with my money.

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Then If you are against UHC, do you agree with healthcare how it is now? What are your solutions to the problem?

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Specializes in Trauma ICU, Surgical ICU, Medical ICU.
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I fear universal health care

everyone has a right to healt care but that doesnt mean you are not responsible for the bill you render

I believe under 18 years of age you should get free health care, just liked education housing etc...

But once you turn 18 you know how that game is played so get some health care.

I dont buy for ONE MINUTE that health care is unaffordable. When I was in college I bought my own health coverage for 66 dollars a month. It wasnt the 'best' but it got me to the doctor and got me perscription meds.

Now if a low income person can afford a pack of cigerrets a day... well you see my point... people dont value health care or if they did they would find a way to fit it in to their budget

The day the governement starts regualting my pay is the day I quit!

And honestly Im not paying for adults to get health coverage.

Lets face it Socialism doesnt work! Unless working you mean paying around 60percent of your income in taxes. No thankyou!

So true! Im sure many of us can name at least 20 people we know that say they cant afford healthcare but have a home, food, go on vacations, buy their cigarettes, have a car, etc. I think health insurance should be like car insurance and you have to pay. Just as you have a car, you have a body and it needs insured! It should be illegal not to have if you are proven to have sufficient funds to afford it. All children under 18 and veteran insurance should be free. There are thousands of commercials out there telling us to GO VOTE, but none saying HEY BOZO YOU NEED HEALTH COVERAGE! You are NOT a fortune teller and you dont know when you will need that coverage. I also believe programs should be available for those who are continuing their education (however a lot of health insurances cover children up to age 25 if you complete that at a young age) as there are now.

First of all lets clearly define whats futile and not futile and make laws to get rid of all this futile care! Like the CABG for a 90yo! Thats insane! We ALL want our family members to live forever, but come on! And if its futile and 2 physicians determine its futile, then there should be no way to take legal action!!! All our docs are scared to just stop because, even though they will win a suit, it takes money and time away from their patients to participate in the suit. It is well known that more healthcare $$ are spent at the last year of life than any other time in their entire life! While sometimes this is justifiable, such as end of life traumas, etc. and were really thinking theres a chance at some quality of life, most of the time its just delaying the inevitable for a few more days or months.

Also agree with giving people beers instead of paying for expensive methadone and ativan to get them over the DTs! Why stop something that they have no intention of stopping when they leave?!?

Is it not PC to have beer in a hosp or what?!

Those are some of my 'solutions' to the problem. Lets clearly define what we are and are not going to treat, lets think outside the box to solve problems in the cheapest way possible, and lets make every american who can afford health care get it!

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Tencat, now that I have read the rest of your post I am frankly saddened. It is sad to see an individual so confused about his/her own country. I wonder how many countries you have visited - or how many countries that America supports and aids compared to every other nation - to include the entire UN. This type of lack of patriotism disgusts me to no end. I hope you find appreciation for your country - as it is unique in its government and freedoms it provides.

Excuse me, but don't even go there about me being non-patriotic. How dare you insinuate that because I think we are very greedy as a country I am not patriotic? So I shouldn't criticize 'my' country ever because we are so great, period???? Not much democratic about that attitude. I think Hitler wanted that kind of submissiveness to the Fatherland as well.

As to traveling, I'm willing to bet YOU are the one who has not traveled much or experienced much. Try living in a foreign country (as I HAVE done, by the way, and not in the military where I would have been segregated from the real culture). It certainly heightens one's appreciation of what we have in the US. We are pretty fortunate to be free to express our opinions without fear that we might someday disappear because the government doesn't like what we've said. Believe me, I wouldn't want to be a citizen of any other country. And I am the daughter of a man who came from a very unstable country who is damn happy to be a US citizen. He knows the difference, and so do I.

That being said, I still do not agree that we shouldn't make healthcare accessible to all. I think we are investing WAY too many of our resources in places like Iraq. If we reorganized our spending as a country, we could add so much to our own country. Why are we investing so much in Iraq? Greed: Oil, Haliburton. Our leaders have become way more concerned with their own wealth and investments in companies than in the welfare of the people of this country. I do not agree with that. We ARE GREEDY. It will be our undoing.

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Specializes in Med Surg, Tele, PH, CM.
Tencat, now that I have read the rest of your post I am frankly saddened. It is sad to see an individual so confused about his/her own country. I wonder how many countries you have visited - or how many countries that America supports and aids compared to every other nation - to include the entire UN. This type of lack of patriotism disgusts me to no end. I hope you find appreciation for your country - as it is unique in its government and freedoms it provides.

The right to criticize our country is a fundamental one. How can we fix anything if we can't complain about it? And which country are you referring to - her native country or her adopted country?

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doesn't everyone have a "right" to health care? it's easy to agree with a meaningless campaign promise such as "affordable health care for all".

universal healthcare amplifies all problems. it reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available. patients in the u.s. who receive "free" (taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as tylenol.

it reduces physician incentives to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.

it steals from your wallet to pay for my health care. yes, you do have a right to health care, just as you have a right to food, shelter and property. however, you have no "right" to force others to provide these things for you - all "free" medical care is subsidized through taxes stolen from other people. the quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker. as the poor and middle-class wait for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment.

it destroys your privacy. suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours. if you eat unhealthy foods or drive a motorcycle without a helmet, i have a direct interest in your business - you are going to see a provider on my tax dollars.

it destroys your liberty. when you blindly support a system that bestows power on politicians and bureaucrats, they will receive their orders from those with the most money and this will not be you, your friends or your family. the power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies.

i was working in a grocery store pharmacy ca. 2001 when medicare part d(isaster) was announced, and we had a parade of customers who were very curious why pharmacists were almost universally opposed to this.

one of my co-workers, who has practiced since 1976, said, "when it goes online, you will find out just how free it is." and he was absolutely right.

something has to be done about drug costs for the elderly, and for un- and under-insured people, but this isn't it.

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I was working in a grocery store pharmacy ca. 2001 when Medicare Part D(isaster) was announced, and we had a parade of customers who were very curious why pharmacists were almost universally opposed to this.

One of my co-workers, who has practiced since 1976, said, "When it goes online, you will find out just how free it is." And he was absolutely right.

Something has to be done about drug costs for the elderly, and for un- and under-insured people, but this isn't it.

This is a great point. I am not saying that UHC doesn't work in any situation, but in our current economic model, government involvement will always lead to corruption and self fulfilling budget consumption and expansion, rather than patient outcome, and the role of health expansion.

Also, for anyone who thinks that health care is "privatized" in our dear country, please look at overall government spending on health care in our country today. It is a not so distant 2nd place behind military spending, to the tune of hundreds of billions per year. We, as taxpayers, spend more on our health care "system" than every other country in the world, combined.

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not all people can afford to pay the higher taxes

The cost of UHC in the UK comes straight from the pot of taxes collected so it's linked directly to your income and how much you purchase of goods that have tax attached to them.

universal health care in several european countries results in long waits for appointments and for trestments

one woman needed A/P repair and it was denied because it was determined that this was 'cosmetic' surgery

Healthcare delayed beats healthcare denied. Insurance companies ONLY make money by saying no.

it is said that health care should be a decision between patient and their doctor but this will be wiped out if a government agency has to determine what is necessary or not

the government will decide what the nurses and other health care workers should receive in pay and benefits

So the insurance companies don't have a pre-existing condition clause that they won't cover, or a list of medical treatments they won't fund?

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doesn't everyone have a "right" to health care? it's easy to agree with a meaningless campaign promise such as "affordable health care for all".

universal healthcare amplifies all problems. it reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available. patients in the u.s. who receive "free" (taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as tylenol.

uhc also amplifies all the solutions. the first question asked of a patient isn't do you have insurance, it's what troubling you. prescriptions in the uk for many are something you have to pay a fixed fee for, more of than not higher than many otc would cost.

it reduces physician incentives to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.

it steals from your wallet to pay for my health care. yes, you do have a right to health care, just as you have a right to food, shelter and property. however, you have no "right" to force others to provide these things for you - all "free" medical care is subsidized through taxes stolen from other people. the quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker. as the poor and middle-class wait for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment.

it encourages healthcare according to your need, not income.

they are building hospitals in india for the us health tourist, wonder why? we even get us citizens coming over here to steal healthcare, wonder why?

it destroys your privacy. suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours. if you eat unhealthy foods or drive a motorcycle without a helmet,

ride a motorcycle your more likely to be seeing the police and the the courts. given the us has the highest number of obese individuals on the planet, i'll take our health promotion/education approach over walking away from the issue.

it destroys your liberty. when you blindly support a system that bestows power on politicians and bureaucrats, they will receive their orders from those with the most money and this will not be you, your friends or your family. the power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies.

i'm sure that happens in the us but not in the uk. we do have problems trying to deliver tailored healthcare to the populace as the issues in the poor north aren't the same as those found in the richer south. the individualised attempt causes problems for some,it's refered to as "postcode lottery".

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What is the opposition to universal healthcare???? Try examining the current states of healthcare in JAPAN, Canada, Europe, etc. One basic complication with socialism. Some people work and contribute. Some people dont work and still reap the benefits. Basic problem in the end....NOT enough money to cover the deadbeats. Sure you can keep taxing the Sh#% out of those who work, but eventually you still come up shorthanded. The reason we have the coolest toys on this side of the pond is because Capitalism beats out socialism every single time it is challenged.

No socialism beats US healthcare every time. You may have more toys but what we do with ours deliver healthcare indices that beat the US in more areas.

I pay into a pot rather than a insurance companies coffers, so I'll get a return on that investment whether I'm employed or not. Can any of your insurance companies able to make the same selling point?

The state doesn't spend a fortuate trying to come up with a circumstance to say no, can any of your insurance companies make the same claim?

The US spends more on healthcare and as a nation gets back less than many of us in the Europe and no matter how you conservatives try to spin things that's not going to change.

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