What is the opposition to Universal Healthcare

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I decided to start a new thread because the others take a completely different spin.

I am by no means well versed on this subject, but from my limited understanding universal healthcare isn't a bad thing. I personally do not mind paying higher taxes if my healthcare is already paid for. I'm a student now, but when I did have health insurance I rarely went to the doctor becuase of the deductible and I was already paying at lease $200 either a check or month. I also don't see how universal healthcare would be bad for hospitals, to me that means that the hospitals will get their money. I'm from Illinois and just this year one hospital nearly closed because they weren't getting paid for services rendered. I also saw in some threads that people would "take advantage" of universal healthcare? How does one take advantage of healthcare? And if more people did get regular check ups would that likely decrease the need for hospitalization? Wouldn't it be under preventive medicine (I thought that was what we nurses and soon to be nurses were promoting) These are just my thoughts. If you disagree that's fine, you are entitled to. I'm for it and would gladly pay the higher taxes, at least then I know some of the money that is taken from me will directly help me.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Right on.

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How embarrassing that there are STILL people in America who think that Obama is proposing a "Socialist" Universal Health Care plan. Get educated!

And even if he were - GOOD! What a selfish, greedy, unpatriotic notion to not want to help provide for your fellow man! I WANT my tax dollars to go towards the HEALTH and welfare of our nations citizens, NOT to send them to a "war" to line some greedy, worthless politicians pockets.

My husband and I are HARD-WORKING, educated American citizens who have had to rely on state-funded health care for the past 6 months. What is really sad about this system, is that we could lose it at any moment for making "too much" money! HA! But those who do not work, and therefore do not pay taxes, have no chance of losing their health care. In Wisconsin, you can pay a premium, depending on your income, and recieve excellent health care benefits. There are some deductibles for higher income brackets, but you still need to be below a certain amount. I we were to take my husbands insurance, it would cost us $950/month with RIDICULOUS deductibles and co-pays. We would go bankrupt instantaniously!! THIS IS WRONG! Everyone should have the opportunity to buy reasonably priced health care.

Restrictions and restraints need to be put on profit margins of pharmacuetical companies, INSURANCE needs to DISSAPEAR - or mandated as non-profit, as well as health care institutions. If you work for a health care institution, your care should be free. We are being taken advantage of by Insurance and pharmaceutical companies, and this needs to stop. We need to insure people so that they will seek out preventative care when needed.

I RESENT the statement saying that people recieving public assisted health care take advantage of the system - THIS IS NOT TRUE! My family seeks health care when necessary, not on a whim because we are covered.

If your husband's insurance costs $950 a month (does his employer not subsidize it at all?) that would probably be the majority of your income if you are eligible for state aid! Good heavens, who's more deserving than someone who is working?

And ITA that health insurance should be a nonprofit entity.

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Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
How embarrassing that there are STILL people in America who think that Obama is proposing a "Socialist" Universal Health Care plan. Get educated!

And even if he were - GOOD! What a selfish, greedy, unpatriotic notion to not want to help provide for your fellow man! I WANT my tax dollars to go towards the HEALTH and welfare of our nations citizens, NOT to send them to a "war" to line some greedy, worthless politicians pockets.

My husband and I are HARD-WORKING, educated American citizens who have had to rely on state-funded health care for the past 6 months. What is really sad about this system, is that we could lose it at any moment for making "too much" money! HA! But those who do not work, and therefore do not pay taxes, have no chance of losing their health care. In Wisconsin, you can pay a premium, depending on your income, and recieve excellent health care benefits. There are some deductibles for higher income brackets, but you still need to be below a certain amount. I we were to take my husbands insurance, it would cost us $950/month with RIDICULOUS deductibles and co-pays. We would go bankrupt instantaniously!! THIS IS WRONG! Everyone should have the opportunity to buy reasonably priced health care.

Restrictions and restraints need to be put on profit margins of pharmacuetical companies, INSURANCE needs to DISSAPEAR - or mandated as non-profit, as well as health care institutions. If you work for a health care institution, your care should be free. We are being taken advantage of by Insurance and pharmaceutical companies, and this needs to stop. We need to insure people so that they will seek out preventative care when needed.

I RESENT the statement saying that people recieving public assisted health care take advantage of the system - THIS IS NOT TRUE! My family seeks health care when necessary, not on a whim because we are covered.

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I'd like to address your last point, first. I hope my post didn't indicate that most people on disablity were fraudulent! Reading it again, I think I mentioned "some". Given the vast number of public funded disability consumers, and the % of the population, there are nowhere near 10% of those who receive disability funds, abusing that.

I worked as the Employee Health Nurse at Sutter, a company that owned clinics and hospitals in CA.Their line was "profit", though they claimed to be non-profit (hiding profits made in doctors' and executives' salaries). There, I was subjected to commentaries about "bad" employees who frequently took disability, by my predecessor, while I was in orientation. I asked why she saw all applicants for that as "bad", and she said they were habitually contenders for it.

Well, looking at the records, I saw only the bad fortune some people had, and the loss of employment caused by that. The income from the disability insurance is pittiful; I can't imagine anyone wanting that instead of their salary! Granted some were neurotically seeking their "bottom", and become more mentally than physically challenged, which wasn't seen as something that needed and should be, helped.

I was disabled while unemployed, for 2 1/2 years in the last 5 years, due to enteric ibuprophen that caused severe gastric bleeding. I had no strength, much less funds to live on, and the financial "domino" effect of that nearly killed me. I was called by Sutter's "Urgent Care" after I foolishly went there and was caustically told by telephone (without proper ID) that I was on the "Critical List" and must return for a second transfusion. I refused and the ripple effect of that transgression of mine, in a small community was incredible - so much for privacy!)! My fears of contaminated transfusions came from having worked as an Infection Control Nurse many years, and I told them that. The Ag test for HIV wasn't available yet, and the "window of infectivity" for Hep C unknown. Doctors chose to oppose me, rather than work with that fear by offering other means of raising my Hgb/Hct, and afterward they ignored my plight. Universal Healthcare would have saved me grief, (my credit score was ruined due to unpaid medical bills),provided the care I needed, and given me 2 years more to work, self pride intact. God help anyone who disagrees with unrealistically money hungry doctors (who are salaried by corporations, but get huge chunks of bonuses), or health care institutions that rely on unscrupulous collection agencies. :cry:

I have become increasingly aware that dead patients who have been chronically ill from whatever cause, are seen as less costly patients! The system of health care delivery in Canada is a humanistic, genrous one that sees the person in need of health care services as someone they can help, not someone who is a millstone around their necks albeit a necessary evil!

Once in the "disabled" category, people have to fight to retain the meager assistance they get, as you said, lest it is removed, by a family member earning money. I've known people who divorced or stayed ingle,

maintaining separate (fully paid) homes, to avoid losing government support that is appropriate...... Who concocted that system? Who causes it to fester?

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Sigh

I dont buy for ONE MINUTE that health care is unaffordable. When I was in college I bought my own health coverage for 66 dollars a month. It wasnt the 'best' but it got me to the doctor and got me perscription meds.

Now if a low income person can afford a pack of cigerrets a day... well you see my point... people dont value health care or if they did they would find a way to fit it in to their budget

I'm not sure how long ago it was when you last purchased health insurance on the open market, but I'm purchasing it on the open market *now,* so let me give you a rundown on the best I was able to get:

$100 per month gets me a $3,500 deductible. Nothing is covered until I meet my deductible - not meds, not doctor visits, nothing.

There is a 12-month waiting period for pre-existing conditions. Anything I came in with (such as cold season asthma), I cannot get care for under my insurance. Which means it also doesn't go toward the deductible.

There is a 6-month waiting period for several different categories, such as sexual organ problems, and several other major categories that I can't remember. If I have problems within six months, none of that goes toward my deductible, either. So, theoretically, I could pay for this insurance and still go bankrupt.

After I meet my deductible, 100% is covered for doctors, with I think some kind of copay for meds. Which is fantastic!

This policy is good for people like me - I want coverage so that if I have something major happen, I won't have to declare bankruptcy. But it also means that I have a condition right now that I'm not treating - asthma. I don't have major asthma, so it is okay. I'm glad I have insurance.

Now, that's all well and good. However, the people who cost the most are not going to be able to get this insurance that I have. Either because they are denied, or even if they are accepted, they cannot afford to have it! If I have rheumatoid arthritis or something, I'm not going to be able to wait 12 months before I can get care for it, and I'm also not going to be able to afford to get it treated at full price.

As far as priorities go, you could say that I should just make it more of a priority. But my husband's car has some things that *have* to be fixed for safety, and our cat needed to go to the emergency vet for a treatable condition. We need a car for work.

So, how would you prioritize that? Let your cat die? Lose your means of transportation in a city with very inadequate public transportation?

I'm being specific because the devil is in the details. This is real life. I agree that there is a social component that, even if preventative care were available, it doesn't mean people would automatically take advantage of it.

But the bigger issue, first, is to deal with WHAT IS rather than what SHOULD BE. Otherwise, we just keep running around in circles.

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Specializes in ER,ICU,L+D,OR.
Hmmm.....have to agree and say I think healthcare should be available to everyone. Heaven forbid we tax the rich what they SHOULD be paying in taxes so that the middle class wouldn't have to pay for both the very poor and the very rich. Now, if that were done, then maybe health care could become something everyone could access.

I have known people from Canada who said that the waits for major surgeries, etc are too long, but they were very happy to be able to access that surgery if they needed it. Same for those I've known from Australia. Right now I have a friend who may lose her leg because she has no insurance to pay for a wound vac or treatment she needs to heal. She's too young for medicare and makes 'too' much money for medicaid. She's stuck. To me that is wrong. We as a country CAN afford to pay for healthcare. If more people had access to preventative care, I think that would save dollars in the long run as more people would see primary care physicians before they were so sick they'd end up in the ER.

As to taxes, we are pretty dang lucky in this country to pay as little as we do. Most other 'civilized' countries pay WAY more in taxes, and more of their people have a good quality of life.....of course the rich in those countries probably aren't as rich as those in the US....but I really don't see that as a bad thing. We are VERY greedy as a country.

Yes this is a greedy country and this has caused our financial demise.

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god, this topic disgusts me sometimes because i see so much misinformation, and outright lies. let me start from the top.

doesn't everyone have a "right" to health care?.

yes. just as everyone has a 'right' to police and fire protection.

let me ask you people who hate uhc...what would you think about privatizing our police and fire services? i'm guessing that you are like most people, and would think that is a horrible idea. you most likely believe that people have some sort of inherent right to protection in that regard. in admitting that, you are admitting that some rights that we have as humans are inherent, and cannot be denied. why is our very health exempted from this, in your view? do you see how contradictory and ridiculous your views are? we would never privatize our police and fire, because that amounts to protection money, this is what the mob used to do. if you couldn't pay the fees, you got screwed. is that what you want for people?

universal healthcare amplifies all problems. it reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available. patients in the u.s. who receive "free" (taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as tylenol.

nothing you say here has been proven, and you neglected to back up anything with sources.

do me a favor...go look up average lifespan, and quality of life by country, and then post where america lies on that list here, for us all to see. i eagerly await your findings. i have feeling you won't bother because it utterly destroys your already terrible and useless argument. for a fun bonus, throw in the amount per capita that we spend on healthcare per year as opposed to these other 'horrible' countries. thanks!

it steals from your wallet to pay for my health care.

so let me guess, you think my paying taxes to support firemen keeping your house from burning down is stealing? really? have you ever thought about this in any sort of critical sense? ever?

have you ever driven on a public road? used public libraries, water supplies, public schools? is that all stealing too?

the quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker.

this is a lie, and you ought to be ashamed at having spread such misinformation without bothering to even pretend to quote a source.

it destroys your privacy.

you speak as someone who has never dealt with an insurance company before. do you think they act in your best interest, or perhaps for a profit? which system do you feel is more prone to patient neglect...a for-profit system, or a government run system?

we have seen with the financial crisis that the free market is not an answer to all of our problems in every case.

unless you think you are smarter than our former federal reserve chairman, alan greenspan, you owe us an apology for spreading these ridiculous right-wing lies.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/23/business/24greenspan.php

suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours.

that is the price i pay for living in a society with others, and actually being a decent human being.

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Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.
God, this topic disgusts me sometimes because I see so much misinformation, and outright lies. Let me start from the top.

Yes. Just as everyone has a 'right' to police and fire protection.

Let me ask you people who hate UHC...what would you think about privatizing our police and fire services? I'm guessing that you are like most people, and would think that is a horrible idea. You most likely believe that people have some sort of inherent right to protection in that regard. In admitting that, you are admitting that some rights that we have as humans are inherent, and cannot be denied. Why is our very HEALTH exempted from this, in your view? Do you see how contradictory and ridiculous your views are? We would never privatize our police and fire, because that amounts to PROTECTION MONEY, this is what the mob used to do. If you couldn't pay the fees, you got screwed. Is that what you want for people?

Nothing you say here has been proven, and you neglected to back up ANYTHING with sources.

Do me a favor...go look up average lifespan, and quality of life by country, and then post where America lies on that list here, for us all to see. I eagerly await your findings. I have feeling you won't bother because it utterly destroys your already terrible and useless argument. For a fun bonus, throw in the amount per capita that we spend on healthcare per year as opposed to these other 'horrible' countries. Thanks!

So let me guess, you think my paying taxes to support firemen keeping your house from burning down is stealing? Really? Have you ever thought about this in any sort of critical sense? Ever?

Have you ever driven on a public road? Used public libraries, water supplies, public schools? Is that all stealing too?

This is a lie, and you ought to be ashamed at having spread such misinformation without bothering to even pretend to quote a source.

You speak as someone who has never dealth with an insurance company before. Do you think they act in your best interest, or perhaps for a profit? Which system do you feel is more prone to patient neglect...a for-profit system, or a government run system?

We have seen with the financial crisis that the free market is not an answer to all of our problems in every case.

Unless you think you are smarter than Alan Greenspan, you owe us an apology for spreading these ridiculous right-wing lies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/economy/24panel.html?8br

That is the price I pay for living in a society with others, and actually being a decent human being.

:yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah:

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Specializes in Telemetry.

You know, I don't agree with universal healthcare per se. I think I would not be opposed to universal preventitive healthcare....the hard thing about that is what do you consider preventitive? Actually I wish that instead of hospitals and doctors placing a price for healthcare they had to decide what percentage of the patients income the procedure, tests, or care would cost. For example, if a check up at the doctor costs 3% of your monthly income and your income is about $2,000 dollars a month. Then a check up would cost about $60. However, if you make $5,000 a month then your bill would be $150. The people providing the services still get to name their price in a fashion because they can name whatever percent they like, but the fact that the cost would be relative to who was paying it would make healthcare more accessible. And regardless of what anyone says, healthcare needs to be more accessible.

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Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

We pay according to what we make here to cover health care,it's called taxes.

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