sequester...huh?

Nurses Activism

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How will sequestering affect nurses?

What can we do about it?

Like I said earlier, this is a result of the gov't trying to make things "fair" for everyone, and instead making things worse.

In this case, the gov't has decided it is only fair that everyone should be able to afford college, so they hand out college loans and grants very liberally. That is all good, except that colleges keep increasing costs because they know students will easily get the loans to pay for it. In the end, students are stuck with the large debt.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

$20 per hour? How do you arrive at that number? Why not $25, or $30?

If someone with no skill, no experience, no education, etc. makes $20 and hour, how much should a nurse make?

If you owned your own business, would you hire someone with no skills, experience, or education at $20 per hour?

The higher the minimum wage increases, the fewer jobs there will be for those with no experience, skills, or education. That means fewer opportunities to gain those work skills and experience for those without it.

It's not the responsibility of a business, big or small, to make things fair for everyone. It's not up to them to make sure everyone can pay all their bills, have healthcare, afford college, raise their kids, etc.

I stated before, if people are allowed to make billions of dollars, then why not have the poverty level at 50,000?? This is hypothetical. And for the moment, I'll bite.

I chose to HYPOTHETICALLY set a minimum wage that offsets the gap. Nurses will get their inflation price that they deserve. Nurses WON'T make 20 dollars/hr. minimum, that's for sure. Licensed progressions such as nursing will make

40/hr. entry level. Most wages are cut by pretax dollars: medical insurance, life insurance, retirement, malpractice (that's what my job offers).

The point is, if wages were utilized for the goods and services that most business invest in: insurance, financial products (including retirement) it wouldn't necessarily shrink the workforce or put "less skilled" workers in place. Pretax dollars shrink the wage, then taxes are still taken out. Essentially one who makes 25 dollars/hr still has 5-10 percent of their wages reduced before taxes. They are not getting their base pay. There are too many people with too low of wages that are missing the gap, are more vulnerable, and because of lack of health care are forced to go on disability. That is what is happening in this country. People cannot afford to keep themselves or their families healthy.

If I were to hire someone at 20 dollars, rest assured I would have that money be able to contribute to pension, retirement, h/c...in turn, that "wage" is subsequently decreased because of pretax dollars. My employees will be able to go to school, allow their children to receive higher education, afford their medicine, etc.

I also would not have a big workforce so that wages will be comfortable for my employees.

Those employees I would assist in helping to create this type of formula in order to make their own businesses with the same business model.

Again, a lot of people who have degrees don't even make that much...some occupations make 10-14 dollars an hour, let alone afford health insurance.

Like I said before, I really not interested in blame games, semantics about economics, I'm about solutions from a systems perspective. I'm not an economist, and do not plan to be. The FACT in this debate is to agree to disagree, and instead of asking me questions, what is the solution??? I have a plan, I have survived this recession, and continue to. AGAIN, I believe everyone should have that same right, including "low skilled" workers; the bulk of the workforce who were children with Down's and developmental disabilities, and other disabilities, not people who are "shiftless and lazy".

We all should have TRUE access to the ability to have a variance of choice that actually allows for success openly, and with everyone to be comfortable enough to have shelter without threat, utilities to be able to provide optimum hygiene, food that increases good health, open space to remain fit, and enough access to contribute in the workforce where they don't have to suffer and eventually be on the backs of the taxpayers. I'm interested in less burden and more level opportunity. There is a great divide, and the ones who have the most money are not hurting. Any one of us can have a significant event, and be in a position to be close to homelessness, or live paycheck to paycheck, and that should not happen.

That happened to me five years ago...so nothing is guaranteed in life. I was able to survive, but again, the economy didn't give me the chance to recoup like the well off have been able to do...so don't give me the soap box of the corporation, doesn't have a responsibility, blah blah blah...Never said that. And when significant things happen it's not always the "irresponsible" I find more in my years from taking care of people who experienced traumatic injuries, and the Intellectually Disabled, and kids who have technology dependent children that the worst things happen to the ones who do what is right.

Again, agree to disagree. I'm not backing down from my position. I am entitled to have my opinion with respect as I have done for you, and I suggest you do the same. I am more interested in solutions, not discussing my point of view.

Collaboration, not division. :)

Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

Just a question, if government is not engaged in protecting the income of citizens and promoting growth of the middle classes, who will do it? Will the free market drag the wages of the employees up with the increase in profits? Will corporations in general determine that there is an income gap between the CEO and the laborer and seek to make things equitable?

It is in the best interest of the country to have a large, growing, and prosperous middle class...that is what makes our country financially strong.

Specializes in Med-Surg.

I stated before, if people are allowed to make billions of dollars, then why not have the poverty level at 50,000?? This is hypothetical. And for the moment, I'll bite.

I chose to HYPOTHETICALLY set a minimum wage that offsets the gap. Nurses will get their inflation price that they deserve. Nurses WON'T make 20 dollars/hr. minimum, that's for sure. Licensed progressions such as nursing will make

40/hr. entry level. Most wages are cut by pretax dollars: medical insurance, life insurance, retirement, malpractice (that's what my job offers).

The point is, if wages were utilized for the goods and services that most business invest in: insurance, financial products (including retirement) it wouldn't necessarily shrink the workforce or put "less skilled" workers in place. Pretax dollars shrink the wage, then taxes are still taken out. Essentially one who makes 25 dollars/hr still has 5-10 percent of their wages reduced before taxes. They are not getting their base pay. There are too many people with too low of wages that are missing the gap, are more vulnerable, and because of lack of health care are forced to go on disability. That is what is happening in this country. People cannot afford to keep themselves or their families healthy.

If I were to hire someone at 20 dollars, rest assured I would have that money be able to contribute to pension, retirement, h/c...in turn, that "wage" is subsequently decreased because of pretax dollars. My employees will be able to go to school, allow their children to receive higher education, afford their medicine, etc.

I also would not have a big workforce so that wages will be comfortable for my employees.

Those employees I would assist in helping to create this type of formula in order to make their own businesses with the same business model.

Again, a lot of people who have degrees don't even make that much...some occupations make 10-14 dollars an hour, let alone afford health insurance.

Like I said before, I really not interested in blame games, semantics about economics, I'm about solutions from a systems perspective. I'm not an economist, and do not plan to be. The FACT in this debate is to agree to disagree, and instead of asking me questions, what is the solution??? I have a plan, I have survived this recession, and continue to. AGAIN, I believe everyone should have that same right, including "low skilled" workers; the bulk of the workforce who were children with Down's and developmental disabilities, and other disabilities, not people who are "shiftless and lazy".

We all should have TRUE access to the ability to have a variance of choice that actually allows for success openly, and with everyone to be comfortable enough to have shelter without threat, utilities to be able to provide optimum hygiene, food that increases good health, open space to remain fit, and enough access to contribute in the workforce where they don't have to suffer and eventually be on the backs of the taxpayers. I'm interested in less burden and more level opportunity. There is a great divide, and the ones who have the most money are not hurting. Any one of us can have a significant event, and be in a position to be close to homelessness, or live paycheck to paycheck, and that should not happen.

That happened to me five years ago...so nothing is guaranteed in life. I was able to survive, but again, the economy didn't give me the chance to recoup like the well off have been able to do...so don't give me the soap box of the corporation, doesn't have a responsibility, blah blah blah...Never said that. And when significant things happen it's not always the "irresponsible" I find more in my years from taking care of people who experienced traumatic injuries, and the Intellectually Disabled, and kids who have technology dependent children that the worst things happen to the ones who do what is right.

Again, agree to disagree. I'm not backing down from my position. I am entitled to have my opinion with respect as I have done for you, and I suggest you do the same. I am more interested in solutions, not discussing my point of view.

Collaboration, not division. :)

Ladyfree, I know you said you didnt want to discuss, and I am sorry but I just need to address ONE thing. Your very first premise in this post is flawed. The fact that there are multibillionaires does not mean minimum wage should be raised to 20$. Because many people who hire minimum wage workers are small business owners who are far from multibillionaires.

These business owners, if minimum wage increased as much as you say, would be forced to hire half the amount of staff. With same workload and less staff, what does that mean? What is currently happening in healthcare?

Actually, I also dispute a few other points. Can you show me anything for WHERE you get the idea that low wage workers have Down's or other disability? Because I'm pretty sure someone with a disability would be getting government assistance. And I am also sure a lack of ambition and laziness are not disabilities. Well, not yet anyways.

I don't know, I do find it ridiculous to see how many people with degrees are unemployed. But I think increasing minimum wage to that extent reduces any incentive to pursue higher education, and I don't think any of us want a dumber and/or less educated population.

The wealthy have more money for better accountants.

Warren Buffett paid 11% "total

taxes" (federal, state, local, indirect taxes -

including corporate taxes) on $8 billion annual

investment gains while a single minimum wage

worker pays 37% "total taxes" from their $14,500

Sure, 11% of $8 billion is a lot of money to give away, but who keeps the most of what they earned?

Specializes in Med-Surg.
The wealthy have more money for better accountants.

Warren Buffett paid 11% "total

taxes" (federal, state, local, indirect taxes -

including corporate taxes) on $8 billion annual

investment gains while a single minimum wage

worker pays 37% "total taxes" from their $14,500

Sure, 11% of $8 billion is a lot of money to give away, but who keeps the most of what they earned?

Well what I and others on this thread have said is that fair would be flat rate with no loopholes. Doesnt matter if you can hire the mega master super ninja of accountants, no loopholes means no loopholes. Now that would be fair.

Well what I and others on this thread have said is that fair would be flat rate with no loopholes. Doesnt matter if you can hire the mega master super ninja of accountants, no loopholes means no loopholes. Now that would be fair.

I agree with that, but I'm not a recipient of a loophole.

Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

And the recipients of the loop holes currently own our congress...

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

Ladyfree, I know you said you didnt want to discuss, and I am sorry but I just need to address ONE thing. Your very first premise in this post is flawed. The fact that there are multibillionaires does not mean minimum wage should be raised to 20$. Because many people who hire minimum wage workers are small business owners who are far from multibillionaires.

These business owners, if minimum wage increased as much as you say, would be forced to hire half the amount of staff. With same workload and less staff, what does that mean? What is currently happening in healthcare?

Actually, I also dispute a few other points. Can you show me anything for WHERE you get the idea that low wage workers have Down's or other disability? Because I'm pretty sure someone with a disability would be getting government assistance. And I am also sure a lack of ambition and laziness are not disabilities. Well, not yet anyways.

I don't know, I do find it ridiculous to see how many people with degrees are unemployed. But I think increasing minimum wage to that extent reduces any incentive to pursue higher education, and I don't think any of us want a dumber and/or less educated population.

Examples related to my position:

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/dibStat.html

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/01/news/economy/disabled_workers/index.htm

As far as someone who had a significant medical event and was approved for disability, I had to fight to climb back into the working class.

I have been told that I wouldn't be able to work again, and most jobs that were suggested were slightly above minimum wage; I was also advised not to work at all because of my condition. The mortgage company does not want to hear that the Department of Social Security wants me not to work.

Assistance from the government does not cover housing, medical expenses (which for me, totaled 4,000 out of pocket w/o insurance; there was a time where I had no insurance) even with Medicare. If you get a certain amount based on degree of disability, it excludes you from other programs, you still need money for food, utilities, hygiene (NOT included) and medicine. My medical event was VERY expensive. I was a CC trauma patient. The hospital bills were paid; year after the event I still had to take care of the convalescent period with limited to no insurance. I had to go back to work, sometimes to the detrimental of my health. I went back to school, graduated last May, and returned to work as a CC nurse.

Not everyone is in this position or opportunity.

Again, not everyone in the workforce who is able bodies is a "low skill worker" there are people who make 20,000 and have a degree. They work for social agencies. 20,000 in my area can't get you a apartment in a safe neighborhood.

I really get offended when people make assumptions about the workforce; automatically making assumptions when they haven't walked a mile in most of these Americans. And for the ones who did make it, a lot if them had it taken away. They had to apply for a lot of the public assistance programs and were DENIED, or asked to sell their home, but couldn't because their home was worthless, just to make sure they can feed their family. I know too many who are educated but had to take employment, or lost their job when the credit card bubble burst; they have MS, or COPD...couldn't get assistance from the government, unemployment wasn't enough either. They are currently on Social Security, which is NO walk in the park to get approved, another MYTH. I'm here to tell you that. They barely above water. The silver lining is that Social Security does assist with that, however, not a lot of places in my area are hiring people who are disabled, or they are slow to get a job.

Again my opinion is based in the REALITY of the communities I have served, and the experiences of myself as well. I have almost drowned from my experiences, and found a way to survive; not everyone can do this successfully, especially if they have children who have special needs. The data is out there, that can be relative. I'm here to dispel this MYTH that people are lounging around laughing at the rest of us while we work...that is not the case, that propaganda is BULL, and does NOTHING to address the issues of that the current system is AGAIN, not working.

My life has been dragged into the back roads of some VERY hard lessons...If I even scratch the surface, I'll make some heads SPIN. However, MY LIFE is not the subject of the discussion, it's this system that is leaving us out, whether one realizes it or not. I realized that most of us are left out because if the lessons I have learned from my experiences.

Again, instead of being concerned about my opinion and position, what are the solutions???

Again, putting aside division, and moving forth in collaboration. :)

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
And the recipients of the loop holes currently own our congress...

^Exactly...tewdles.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Just a question, if government is not engaged in protecting the income of citizens and promoting growth of the middle classes, who will do it? Will the free market drag the wages of the employees up with the increase in profits? Will corporations in general determine that there is an income gap between the CEO and the laborer and seek to make things equitable?

It is in the best interest of the country to have a large, growing, and prosperous middle class...that is what makes our country financially strong.

^THIS is where the conversation REALLY needs to be going....HOW can we get to becoming strong again?

Well said tewdles.

Specializes in FNP, ONP.

I certainly don't agree with a flat tax, not at all. The poor and middle class should not be paying the same percentage of their income as the wealthy, IMO. I believe in a graduated income tax based on unadjusted gross income, i.e., NO LOOPHOLES, NO DEDUCTIONS. Yes, I believe in redistribution of wealth. And I say that as someone from a privileged background with inherited wealth and assets, as well as good income from a job and a partner with much better income. We are far more affected than most by such programs, but we know it is right that we pay more because we have more. We have more than we need; helping our community and funding social programs with tax dollars is not only our civic responsibility, it is a moral imperative.

Plus, we are not totally selfish bastards.

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