Is Health Care a Right?

sixes · Mar 13, 2003

I guess we could go on debating this for ever.

I did not realize that taxes were that high in the US, forgive me I am canadian and have never left Ontario.

I just see what is on TV, everything seems cheaper and your dollar is worth way more then our LOONIE.

Yes our health care system is the best and I can not think of an country that would not want it, Yes the US needs a Us solution, I am just thankful that I'm not the one who has no health coverage.

I hope your government solves this national disaster as fast at it is solving the conflict with Iraq.

I will repeat myself again everyone in the US deserves proper coverage, in a country with such great wealth no one young or old should have to live in fear of becoming ill, illness is a fact of live and it does'nt care if you are rich or poor.

Have a great day.

On a happier note it is +4C today the sun is shining brightly prehaps our-26C weather is gone for good. :cool:

Gromit · Mar 14, 2003

RIIIIGHT.

I really WOULD like to see my country cut back drastically on the aid it sends out to other countries, though. It would help OUR citizens a lot, I think.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · May 5, 2003

Why, health care should be a Right.

Along with world peace, freedom of SPEECH, THOUGHT and religion - freedom for Equality and against racism.

But here at alln...America, we don't have those, so why are we worried about Health Care.

Gromit · May 5, 2003

Hmm, so you are saying (while adding to a thread that hasn't been touched in 2 months, thusly making it a dead subject) that YOU (Caroladybelle) do not have freedom of speech, or the freedom of thought, (I'm not sure what the other two meant. Freedom against racism?). But the healthcare thing has been pounded to death.

You would freely give away what I have to work so hard to get. I.E. my paycheck to someone else. Its one thing if I give charitably to others, but another thing entirely if I'm forced to give up my $$. Why bother with this track of thought? I'm not about to change my mind (I FIRMLY believe that I should be allowed to keep much of what I earn through my hard work. And those on the other side FIRMLY believe that I should be forced to give up yet more of my bread to subsidize yet another government program).

The constitution never granted healthcare as a right.

mattsmom81 · May 5, 2003

IMO basic healthcare is a right we ALREADY enjoy in the US. Every community I know of has a county clinic or hospital which works with indigent, and it is against the law for facilities to turf serious ailments due to inability to pay. So the people who need free or low cost basic healthcare already get it, in my experience. If they don't, they aren't looking too hard.

The key word here is BASIC. In our entitled society, US citizens don't know the meaning of basic anymore, I fear. Too many want something big for nothing, and want anybody else but them to foot the bills for what they 'want' vs what they 'need'..

I'm tired of my hard earned $$s paying for convicts to get CABG's and kidneys, (just one example) so I'm not really in favor of an extended government health care system in excess of what we have now (indigent care/welfare/medicaid) This is sufficient, IMO.

JMP · May 6, 2003

I know my opinion is different, based on country..which is different from the US. I do, however, disagree about basic rights.

I guess working in a ICU, it is hard for me to see what basic rights might be... nasal prongs if SOB and Sa02 less than 96... intubation if resp distress due to aspiration? Where would the line be drawn, a 40 year old needs a CABG, is working but has no insurance ..... who makes that desicison?

Like I said, I know we are different countries, but to me, if you are alive and the docs think they can change your life by doing a CABG... but you are WORKING POOR and can not afford health insurance, it would be a crime in my eyes to NOT GET it due to finances.

I just can not get by the working poor not having the same health care as those who can afford the health insurance.

Just my opinion... and yes my taxes are high and yes we have universal health insurance.

Good_Queen_Bess · May 6, 2003

Everyone should be treated on the basis of need, not on the ability to pay. Equality for ALL.

I will never work in the private sector as I don't believe someone who just happens to have more money should be treated better/quicker. It would go against every grain of my conscience as a nurse to look after a patient who was in a hospital bed who got there quicker just because they had more money, and that there was someone in greater pain or even dying at home due to them having less MONEY.

The National Health Service isn't perfect, but everyone is equal.

Gromit · May 6, 2003

Sounds good. Wish I could afford the Harley Road King, instead of the Kawasaki Vulcan Classic that I ride, but my finances don't support that (yet. They will in about a half a year). I understand the desire, but who should donate the money? I mean, it DOES seem harsh to say 'you just don't have the coverage', but the truth of the matter is, CABG, and any other advanced tx just cost a lot of money, resources etc, and well, who eats the cost? Please don't tell me 'the government'. The government has no money of its own. It gets it through taxes. Most Americans (of the U.S. Variety) are just not willing to donate 1/2 of their earnings like that.

Whats the point in working for a living, if you can't enjoy the living your working for?

As was said earlier, BASIC care is given and refused to none, but you just cannot get Cadillac (or Rolls Royce, for our English friends -love the old Rolls.... back when cars were cars!) care for a Volkswagen price. SOMEBODY has to make up the difference. Who do you force to do that?

Of course, you could always just donate your earnings to help them.... (I already volunteer what few 'free' hours I have left)

Good Queen, are you saying that if you can afford better care, you cannot get it better than or faster than the National Health Service? You must be on the same waiting list as everyone? (I do not pretend to understand NHS in England).

jenac · May 6, 2003

I would love to have the magic answer here. It sure would fix alot! I do think heathcare is a right-a basic human right. But money buys the best of everything-and those with it can get the best care, the best Dr., the best meds. While those without it don't get any care-or half rate care at best. Heath insurance has become so expensive-you have to be a rocket-scientist to afford it. How many struggling families have to forgo trips to the Dr. because they can't afford the $400 a month for heath ins. or the $75 for just an office visit-not to mention the cost of medications? For some-the lack of available care means life or death-or at least quality of life. Here's a great example that riles me up every time I think of it. (I've had this dissucsion before-can't ya tell? :) ) Take two women-both have breast cancer. One of them is married to a top CEO of something or another. The other is a struggling single mom. The first can afford the best Dr. and the best meds, the top experiemental drugs. The second can barely afford the office visits-let alone the meds. And she makes more than what the goverment says she can on paper to get federally funded heathcare. Which do you think is gonna have a better chance of survival? Why? Because of circumstance. Because of things we cannot always control-because of things none of us chooses to happen. Why should the second women suffer and ultimately die because of her financial circumstance? Does she have any less right to live? Is she any less important? No-she's just unluckier than the former. Her lot in life has just turned out to be worse than the former. As heathcare workers-and human beings-we should all respect both these lives. We should do everything in our power to save them both- for their values as people, not their stations.

Anyway-that's my opinon. I'll step off my soapbox now. I don't have all the answers. I have no idea how to pay for this, or how to fix the problems with the system as it is. I think the federal government could afford alot more if they would stop useless spending on things like crystal ashtrays in Congressmen's offices-when all federal buildings are smoke-free. Or short trips in limos around the corner. But-that's the beast at the heart of all evils, isn't it? :)

Thanks for letting me give my two cents.

Gromit · May 6, 2003

I agree with you on that part! I wish the government was made more accountable for the useless spending. I've worked for local governments before (county level, EMS/Fire) and the senseless spending and waste used to make me sick! Any business would go belly-up (and many have, for those very shenanigans)

nurse2002 · May 6, 2003

Originally posted by sixes
I guess we could go on debating this for ever.
I did not realize that taxes were that high in the US, forgive me I am canadian and have never left Ontario.
I just see what is on TV, everything seems cheaper and your dollar is worth way more then our LOONIE.
Yes our health care system is the best and I can not think of an country that would not want it, Yes the US needs a Us solution, I am just thankful that I'm not the one who has no health coverage.
I hope your government solves this national disaster as fast at it is solving the conflict with Iraq.
I will repeat myself again everyone in the US deserves proper coverage, in a country with such great wealth no one young or old should have to live in fear of becoming ill, illness is a fact of live and it does'nt care if you are rich or poor.
Have a great day.
On a happier note it is +4C today the sun is shining brightly prehaps our-26C weather is gone for good.

Actually, I am bashing our healthcare system. Healthcare should be a right in a country as rich as ours.

I work in homehealth and get elderly patients ALL the time that they send home from the hospital without meds knowing this person does not have the money to get them. Social services does nothing. I dont care if they were a doc before retirement or a garage collector....they deserve to live. Let them die because they are poor?

I see them send home young people from the hosptal that came in DKA because they could not afford their insulin.

Saw a little baby girl 22 months old die last month because her insurance company would not pay for surgery and only a few chemo and radiation visits. Who helped them? Noone. Even more children would die if it were not for organizations such as the Shriners and Masons. A LOT more.

I have a lady right now who will die without surgery because insurance does not want to pay it all. But she is going to sell her house, but where is she going to go when she gets out of the hospital? She worked hard ALL her life for that house. Gone now.

Our politicians can spend millions to campaign. Our goverment spends billions on defense. Also millons on reseach such as 'why does a fly have two wings?' (serious example) But medicare cannot pay for meds? ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRG!

Ive seen them sell off nursing home residents property and not leave them so much as a gown to sleep in.

America is a great place to live, but we pay a high price for it. We pay the taxes, but not everyone is covered. Even people that have worked ALL their lives.

Sixes, you are SOoooooooooo right. We need to get it together. And fast.

nurse2002 · May 6, 2003

Jenac, I just read your post! You are sooo right!

I feel much better also after this vent.