Is Health Care a Right? - page 46

Just want to see your opinion (friendly discussion, no flaming, please). Is health care a right that should be enjoyed equally here in the U.S.? If so, how would this be financed without breaking... Read More

  1. by   Gromit
    I've never said that the status quo was the answer, but have been quick to say that having government run/subsidized care isn't the answer either. It would just be medicaid/medicare on a yet larger scale, and run just as inefficiently (if not more so). Hardly an answer. And I totally understand what you are saying (regarding the pittances, pileing up) but lets be at least a little realistic here. There is NO way you are going to get all those fat cats in washington to give up their little projects (no matter how silly) and put money toward this common good. We would have just as much success and even more to spend if we just cut foreign aid. I THINK England gives foreign aid (I'm fairly sure of it) but who else does, to any signifficant amount? And I'm positivive that NOBODY does so in anywhere near the amount WE do. Imagine how much better off our heathcare (for that matter, how much lower our taxes could be, equating to more opportunities when you can spend your money YOUR way) if we just did some drastic cutting in the foreign aid dept.
    Why not?? You talk about billions, I'm talking trillions. Personally, I considder that to be a lot of waste as well.

    For example, how many governments get subsidized by our foreign aid just so they can feed their people, while using their own scratch to build thier armies and weapons systems? I have no problem donating grain, but lets see some effort on THEIR part as well!

    Charity should start at home.
  2. by   Gromit
    Just got back from about 150 mile ride (stop and go). Its 97F outside, and sunny (very few clouds). I'm slightly burned. Sigh. Excellent ride, though!
  3. by   graysonret
    Don't know how it came to pass, that universal healthcare was a "right". Who came up with that idea? Another leap toward more socialism. I've seen the gov't run things over the years and having them run my healthcare just doesn't do it for me. They've managed to screw up everything else they control. Once they have that under control, it's only a small step to running my life as to what I can or can't do...and especially for children. "For the children" will be the keyword to dictate to parents on how to raise their children, and keep them "healthy" and reduce the healthcare budget. Having universal coverage is also another way of more money coming out of my pocket to pay for medical expenses for others...besides my own. I don't mind helping others but enough is enough.
  4. by   jenac
    I have always said that the government built by the people-tends to not be as much for the people as we'd hope. It tends to be more for themselves-and the lining of their own pockets (unless constituents are watching-then they bury it under so much c**p noone can be sure of anything!).

    I am pro-human. I believe that every child, everywhere has the right to decent food and healthcare. Regardless of the faults of their countries governments. We have set up shelters and food kitchens for those US citizens who cannot feed themselves. As a society-we are not starving. Each and every US person has the means to survive. Forgein Aid gives food to people who have absolutley nothing-no government systems in place to ensure their survival. I would think we could find other areas to cut before we take from people to satisfy other people. Wasteful spending is a huge open arena-one the public has been crying about for years and years. It would be interesting to have the time and energy to carefully review the Congressional budget-and see exactly where the allocations are going. I am willing to bet we could find quite a bit to put into a national healthcare system-an equal system for all-without ever having to cut the thread that so many rely on for basic survival.
  5. by   jenac
    Not that I want to debate Forgein Aid policies.....
  6. by   nurse2002
    Originally posted by jenac
    Gromit- if you take the "pittance" th govenment spend on counting the wings of flies-and cow farts, and combine it with the other USELESS spending that is so rampant, we could atleast do more for the un/under-insured than we are doing now. I for one could certainly find much better uses for billions of dollers a year.

    You definiation of a "free health system" is exactly what we have right now- which, as many have said, is just not working. By keeping it the same-you solve nothing and help only those who are already in the system. You have changed nothing. Where is the answer there?


    very good question Jenac
  7. by   fergus51
    I nominate this thread for the energizer bunny award!!!
  8. by   nurse2002
    Originally posted by Gromit
    well, we can at least agree on that part. politicians care only about politicians (except, as stated, around election time).

    I'm proud to be a cynic. I'm also proud to be a realist, which is the same thing in the eyes of most.

    the pittance given for silly research (number of wings and mechanics of such on flies??? ugh! rates up there with the 'cow farts and methane' of a number of years ago) is not going to offset the amount insurance costs.

    You make it essentially 'free' (and the word 'free healthcare' was not first uttered by me. but figure this, socialized will mean free to many, but not those of us who 'earn too much'.) and your demand will skyrocket.

    I've lost count on the number of times I used to take in (and see come into the ER when I get slotted to that dept) so many 'I don't feel goods' (when even they would admit that the reason
    they dialed '911' was because "I'll get seen faster if I go by ambulance, -I don't want to wait in the waitingroom for hours". Admittedly, there are times I probably SHOULD have gone to the hospital but would not because #1 I didn't have the co-pay amount handy, and #2 I didn't want to wait for hours just to get a little treatment.
    But there are many who will gladly take advantage of a percieved 'gift' or 'freebie' no matter what. And you think nurses complain about being overloaded NOW? hahahaha. Thats a laugh. I've worked both sides of the ladder when hospitals have been on bypass (as was the next facility and the one after that). Imagine it going on all the time!

    But this isn't about that. I do wish there were a good solution to the lousy state of insurance premiums etc. but government control, well, its just not one I'd favor.

    EVERYTHING the government gets its hand in (at least here in the U.S.) they make more complicated, more expensive, and less compassionate, less user-friendly.

    I know of no exceptions.

    Glad we can agree on something.
    But a realist does not have to be a cynic (used as an adjective)
    I did not call you a cynic I accused you of thinking like one. I do not know you and would not say you ARE anything.
  9. by   Nurse Ratched
  10. by   Furball
    it keeps going....and going....and going...SusyK would be proud!
  11. by   donmurray
    Almost on topic, re foreign aid. (health related)

    The US contribution to the World Health Organisation in 2002 was approximately 215m. dollars, or 19% of the WHO total income. I don't have a UK figure, but I guess it's not just the UK that pays the other 81%!
    WHO guideline for healthy eating recommends that sugar should form no more than 10% of the diet. The US Sugar Association, and the National Soft Drink Association recommend 25%, and plan to "challenge" future US funding levels for WHO because of that difference.
    To put that into perspective, annual US government spend on sex education programmes which focus on abstinence until marriage as the preferred option is 100m. dollars - one in Texas allegedly teaches that condoms are not effective as they are thinner than many kinds of plastic !
    As a Briton, I have lived all of my life under a universal healthcare system. In that life, I have received ongoing preventative care, health checkups, dental treatment, 3 separate surgeries, including one emergency for appendicitis, and 3 years ago, prompt and effective treatment for a MI. including rehabilitation and fitness training. Because my earnings are above a set minimum level, I pay for any drugs I am prescribed, but even then it is a set fee per prescription.
    I find it hard to imagine the sheer drudgery of living and working under the pressure of paying off the debts I would have incurred under a US - type system, for my family's various ilnesses and broken bones we have sustained over the years. I am reassured in my daily existence that should I need further healthcare, it will be available, subject to clinical need, and not my ability to pay for it.
    Nobody enjoys paying taxes, but given the greater good of both the indivdual, and the society as a whole, it is the fairest way I can think of to promote a healthy nation.
  12. by   Gromit
    Originally posted by nurse2002
    Glad we can agree on something.
    But a realist does not have to be a cynic (used as an adjective)
    I did not call you a cynic I accused you of thinking like one. I do not know you and would not say you ARE anything.
    Fair enough On many things, yes, I do think like a cynic.
    But I guess I'd have to say its just part of being me (grin).

    Mother's day is today. My mother is/has been an exceptional woman. She kept her family together through many trials and challenges. We traveled to and lived in Seville, Spain for 6 yrs, (not on a base -we aren't military) and she fended for us, figured out and got her kids in school and through. Her main preperation for life was growing up on a farm just north of Plant City. She seems frail and yet strong. She has stood her ground when required- she has been our defender against pissed-off gypsies while overseas. She helped my father get through medical school by taking on extra duties, thereby freeing him up to study. My mother was a rider too, and I loved to ride alongside her. She was always a timid rider when the ride started, but soon she would settle into the saddle and lay on the throttle with the rest of us, keeping up with the pack. -I'm glad I took pictures of her on her bike, since being diagnosed with Ovarian cancer over 13 yrs ago. I've watched her get so sick and weak that I thought she would never make it home -but she got better, and came back. She had to give up her ride, no longer strong enough to hold the bike up, or endure the pounding a two-wheeler can give -that was about 2 years ago, but I'll never forget the ride that we all went on to Deals Gap (aka The Dragon) which is a road 11 miles long, with 318 curves, in the foothills of TN, USA.

    She was the main health-care provider for her father -who passed away Oct. 16, 2002, and marked the last of all 4 grandparents (all of which passed away last year).

    But then, mom was hardly new to healthcare, she bandaged and salved many a boo-boo, having 3 boys who loved to play hard -I'm the eldest.

    My mother is terminal now, and the end is quite near. My fondest wish is for her to see me graduate at the end of the year (should all go well). I try to spend as much time as I can around my parents, I feel lucky to have them and want them to know it.

    I suppose this is out of place here, it didn't start out that way, but I wanted to share it, since other than being in class or at work, I spend my time with all of you here. Not much of a life when you're a student, and I know you've all been there.

    Have a HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY to all of you mothers out there (though I've been called one before, I'm a male -haha). I'm about to go and spend the day with mine.

    Take care.
    -Joseph Richter Jr, "Gromit"
  13. by   nurse2002
    Gromit

    I hope you spend a wonderful day with your mother!

    Thanks!

    Beth

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