Is Health Care a Right?

Gromit · May 8, 2003

Just please let me make one distinction perfectly clear.

The 'free' healthcare is NOT free.

SOMEBODY has to pay for it.

Good_Queen_Bess · May 8, 2003

Could those who deny equality for all say to a child; "No you're too poor to have your cancer treated/have a transplant because I'm not prepared to pay tax for the likes of you. A few more pence in the pound in my pocket is better than a few more pence towards the Inland Revenue to pay for health care for all. Money is more important than your life. However, I WOULD deserve to be treated because I pay the right insurance, but you don't because your too poor."

We are not judge and jury to say who lives and who dies.

OTT? No, a PERSON'S life.

Good_Queen_Bess · May 8, 2003

Originally posted by sanakruz
Oh and MagRN- Please share with us some stats RE non-citizens leeching our system.Do you have any clue as to where you may find them? Or are you just going to recite the same tired party line of the ignorant?
Suzy- Heaven forbid that inmate had access to an abortion prior to being incarcerated! Pro life any of you? I know you are, Mark

Can I believe my ears? Licensed nurses advocating the suffering of their fellow humans on this planet? Or are you all just whining because you have to pay taxes???

Couldn't have put it better myself sanakruz.

jenac · May 8, 2003

So tell me-in all this debate, has anyone noticed the irony here? As healthcare workers-we are the ones who are forced to take care of those we are complaining about to earn our living to pay the taxes that support them and ultimitely pay our wages!

A huge cosmic joke, if you think about it.

Good_Queen_Bess · May 9, 2003

Originally posted by jenac
So tell me-in all this debate, has anyone noticed the irony here? As healthcare workers-we are the ones who are forced to take care of those we are complaining about to earn our living to pay the taxes that support them and ultimitely pay our wages!

A huge cosmic joke, if you think about it.

And I thought that American's didn't understand irony. I thought you guys thought that irony was like goldy and brozey, only made of iron. :wink2:

nurse2002 · May 9, 2003

Originally posted by jenac
So tell me-in all this debate, has anyone noticed the irony here? As healthcare workers-we are the ones who are forced to take care of those we are complaining about to earn our living to pay the taxes that support them and ultimitely pay our wages!

A huge cosmic joke, if you think about it.

I disagree. At no time did I, myself complain about taking care of these people, or paying taxes to support them. Most of these people support themselves and work hard, but cannot afford healthcare. I am not forced to care for anyone. I enjoy taking care of any patient whether they have insurance money or whatever.

The point is our goverment spends money for ungodly thins, (please see my previous posts) that EVERYONE should have basic healthcare, their meds if they cannot afford them. Any surgeries that will save their lives or make their quality of life better. This should be a RIGHT. In a country that wastes millions of dollars everyday.

Just because someone is elderly does not mean they should not have their meds paid for by the government. These are the people that taught us as children, cooked in restraunts for us and ultimateley made our world much more efficient. They deserve healthcare.

Working families that cannot afford healthcare it should be given to them on a basis of income.

Please read my previous posts.

Also we have MDs now who have been taking care of patients for decades and now that the patient is elderly and REALLY needs that MD, the doc is dropping those patients because medicare does not reimburse them enough money. Its really sickening.

From what ive heard socialized medicine is not perfect, but it works for everyone. Whether you are poor, old ,working whatever.

I see socialized medicine in our very near future here in the US.

nurse2002 · May 9, 2003

Originally posted by Good_Queen_Bess
Could those who deny equality for all say to a child; "No you're too poor to have your cancer treated/have a transplant because I'm not prepared to pay tax for the likes of you.

OTT? No, a PERSON'S life.

Sad, it happens all the time here. And as I said earlier. WE would not have to pay higher taxes if the government would stop wasting money. I gave a serious example earlier of a million dollar grant (one every year) for people to study why flies have two wings and the exact mechanics of those wings. They give billions in grants like this every year.

The damn fly isnt even endangered.

But people with cancer without insurance are.Who work, but cannot afford it, and make too much money to get aid, then by the time they quit their job the aid is gone.

Where are the governments priorities?

Themselves.

nurse2002 · May 9, 2003

Originally posted by Gromit
Sounds good. Wish I could afford the Harley Road King, instead of the Kawasaki Vulcan Classic that I ride, but my finances don't support that (yet. They will in about a half a year). I understand the desire, but who should donate the money? I mean, it DOES seem harsh to say 'you just don't have the coverage', but the truth of the matter is, CABG, and any other advanced tx just cost a lot of money, resources etc, and well, who eats the cost?

With all due respect Gromit. Are you actually comparing a motorcycle to healthcare? That your finances dont support it so you dont have the one you want yet?

That someone should not have a lifesaving procedure because they cant afford it?

Are these two things actually being compared.?????????????

The goverment DOES have the money. They can pay WITHOUT anything else being cut. They are just too shallow and have too many butts to kiss with the money they are giving out now.

America is a great place to live. But there are some serious priorities missing. I would much rather our goverment pay healcare for elderly, disabled, working people who cannot afford it than see billions on a shuttle lift off that they screw up anyway.

If the government would get their priorities straight EVERYONE could have healthcare and not at further expense to the taxpayer.

Have you ever looked up goverment spending on the internet? 500,000 blacktie dinners once a month at the white house. At governs mansions. ALL the time. Cut this crap out and they could put the money torwars healthcare.

nurse2002 · May 9, 2003

Originally posted by Good_Queen_Bess
Couldn't have put it better myself sanakruz.

Nor could I of said it better.

luv-my-dal · May 9, 2003

I believe health care is a right.

There is no such thing as "free" health care. Premiums are paid to ensure coverage....premiums that can be based on an ability to pay.

Some are saying that at least the children are entitled to health care being a right. So where do you cut the line there....how old when you cut them off health care? So they reach that particular age where they are cut off, but may still have the same medical problems to deal with. Really, what help has that been other than to prolong or delay their suffering until they are an adult and can't afford the ongoing treatments.......then what happens?

How do you choose who should get treatment? On their ability to pay?.....that is beyond me.

I say we are all entitled to be healthy; that is why I chose this profession.

Promoting holistic care and encouraging healthy lifestyles, I am advocating for the patient. My concern is for their health, not their wallet size.

Gromit · May 9, 2003

Originally posted by nurse2002
With all due respect Gromit. Are you actually comparing a motorcycle to healthcare? That your finances dont support it so you dont have the one you want yet?

That someone should not have a lifesaving procedure because they cant afford it?

Are these two things actually being compared.?????????????

The goverment DOES have the money. They can pay WITHOUT anything else being cut. They are just too shallow and have too many butts to kiss with the money they are giving out now.

First off, I guess I gave too much credit here. No, my ENTIRE point was that you cannot expect to get cadillac ANYTHING for a volkswaagen price. Not just livesaving procedures were being talked about here. A motorcycle is a motorcycle, and basic healthcare is just that, BASIC. BUT not all would be content to just have a plain bike (or car, or healthcare), they want the best one (of each). Thats fine. But WHO PAYS? You are saying that the government has the money.

NO, it does NOT. The government has NO money of its own. It has the money it takes from taxes from the people who work all week to pay them.

And more to the point, to pay something, it has to cut something (think in the terms of a basic budget). You may not care for the item that gets cut, but someone else will. Someone will gripe that their pet project or pork-barrel item is cut (as will their constituents) but you will yell 'kudos' because your project (universal health care) is now funded. The only way to fund something without cutting anything else is to..... Yes, you guessed it! Tax 'em Harder!.

If we cut the billions of money that go out to other countries, we could easily realize the dreams of having "free" healthcare, but then others would decry that our cutting of funding to these other countries is causing strife.

Who wins?

I say 'take care of ourselves FIRST, then help the world' and I'm branded 'isolationist'.

I say 'No, don't tax me higher to help everyone else with yet another problem' and I'm suddenly cold hearted and selfish (get that, SELFISH to wish to keep what I work hard to get).

Whats the point in working for a living if you can't enjoy the living your working for?

I love helping others, I'm in the healthcare field for that reason among others. I've been helping and working in the field as a career and volunteer for about a decade and a half.

But, I would like to have something to show for my skills, training, and hard work and sacrifice (to achieve said training).

nurse2002 · May 9, 2003

Originally posted by Gromit
First off, I guess I gave too much credit here. No, my ENTIRE point was that you cannot expect to get cadillac ANYTHING for a volkswaagen price. Not just livesaving procedures were being talked about here. A motorcycle is a motorcycle, and basic healthcare is just that, BASIC. BUT not all would be content to just have a plain bike (or car, or healthcare), they want the best one (of each). Thats fine. But WHO PAYS? You are saying that the government has the money.

NO, it does NOT. The government has NO money of its own. It has the money it takes from taxes from the people who work all week to pay them.

And more to the point, to pay something, it has to cut something (think in the terms of a basic budget). You may not care for the item that gets cut, but someone else will. Someone will gripe that their pet project or pork-barrel item is cut (as will their constituents) but you will yell 'kudos' because your project (universal health care) is now funded. The only way to fund something without cutting anything else is to..... Yes, you guessed it! Tax 'em Harder!.

If we cut the billions of money that go out to other countries, we could easily realize the dreams of having "free" healthcare, but then others would decry that our cutting of funding to these other countries is causing strife.

Who wins?

I say 'take care of ourselves FIRST, then help the world' and I'm branded 'isolationist'.
I say 'No, don't tax me higher to help everyone else with yet another problem' and I'm suddenly cold hearted and selfish (get that, SELFISH to wish to keep what I work hard to get).

Whats the point in working for a living if you can't enjoy the living your working for?

I love helping others, I'm in the healthcare field for that reason among others. I've been helping and working in the field as a career and volunteer for about a decade and a half.
But, I would like to have something to show for my skills, training, and hard work and sacrifice (to achieve said training).

Amotor cycle is a motor cycle

basic healthcare is basic healthcare

And a cynic is a cynic