Healthcare is NOT a basic human right. - page 27

If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from... Read More

  1. Visit  RockinChick66} profile page
    3
    Quote from rntj
    Well, if you deny people healthcare, you are essentially depriving them of their life at one point or another. It always amazes me how strict Constitutional constructionists who want to interpret everything "as the founding (racist, slaveowning, sexist) fathers)" wanted it, fail to remember that in the days of this country's founding, the town doctor provided health care to everybody, rich AND poor. I don't think they imagined at time when people's health would be turned into a commody for the enrichment of powerful insurance companies.
    yeah this!
    rntj, JMBnurse, and Artistyc1 like this.
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  3. Visit  Texan45} profile page
    4
    Healthcare should be a basic human right...... Well why stop at healthcare? I also believe that food, clothing, a new house, cell phone, cable tv, air conditioning, the internet, college education, and a car are also basic human rights.

    The problem lies when you pronounce a good and service a "human right" and choose to provide others with it, it must be paid for somehow. This means stealing hard earned income from person A and giving it to person B. And for some reason, person B believes that somehow person A owes this to them, that it is their right to take person A's income to provide for their well being. Somehow person A is indebted to person B for some unknown reason.

    I am tired of getting my check after two weeks of work and seeing 25% of it taken from me by the federal government.
    RockinChick66, realmaninuniform, mc3, and 1 other like this.
  4. Visit  SA2009} profile page
    7
    toekneejo: First, I think no one wants to take anything taken from the paycheck.

    Secondly, please explain to me what is difference of paying a premium to an insurance company or paying the premium to the government. Do you actually trust health insurance companies more than your own government?

    Also, when growing up under a universal healthcare plan, I always saw it like this: I don't mind at all paying my premium (or having it taken from the government), when person xyz who just had a car accident and needs to be rushed to the ER is cared for because I know when I get into a car crash, I will be cared for as well.

    Now, paying to an insurance company, if I develop certain illnesses, I may or MAY NOT get medical benefits, although I have paid my premiums for the last 10 years...
    Sisyphus, rntj, JMBnurse, and 4 others like this.
  5. Visit  toekneejo} profile page
    0
    Quote from SA2009
    toekneejo: First, I think no one wants to take anything taken from the paycheck.

    Secondly, please explain to me what is difference of paying a premium to an insurance company or paying the premium to the government. Do you actually trust health insurance companies more than your own government?

    Also, when growing up under a universal healthcare plan, I always saw it like this: I don't mind at all paying my premium (or having it taken from the government), when person xyz who just had a car accident and needs to be rushed to the ER is cared for because I know when I get into a car crash, I will be cared for as well.

    Now, paying to an insurance company, if I develop certain illnesses, I may or MAY NOT get medical benefits, although I have paid my premiums for the last 10 years...

    Well the short answer is... yes I do trust a private company, whose income is based on customer service, to be more reliable than the US government. However, and more importantly, I am not interested in assisting the US to dig a deeper hole for our children to have to try to dig out of or raise the hands and announce "We give up" In addition like my previous post says I am not against group policies however I do not have the same issues that my fellow Northern Americans or Eastern or fill in the blank do. Have you ever looked at home insurance? Do you know that when Katrina hit down south, everybody's insurance in that "region" was increased to offset the loss to the insurance company, however When a mudslide affects the west coast it does not affect my homeowners. How does this relate, you ask? People in the gulf states know that we are at a higher risk of skin cancer and cancers caused by the refineries, we accept those risks when we move to that area. If I lived in Alaska and I was told that my premium (regardless if it's government ran or privately and whether we call it a tax or premium-- it still has the same effect) was raising due to people in the south having an increase rate of skin cancer or whatever the situation is. This is why it is so important to create an answer to healthcare that is locally accepted. As I also stated the US is actually 50 separate republics in which they came together for strength. if we bog the down the Federal government then it effects all 50 as oppose to if one group--- lets say Texas tries a universal healthcare and it fails it is only affecting the people who actively rooted it on. However lets say Texas is adamantly against a Nationalized Healthcare but is forced into it and it fails, is it fair to the entire state of Texas who opposed it to be effected? Please don't criticize me using Texas we could insert any given state name in with the same effect. Do you also realize the Federal government has no constituents? Each state has its borders in which their constituents reside and they as a people should do what is in their best interest.
  6. Visit  Fiona59} profile page
    3
    [QUOTE=toekneejo;6967928]. . .

    As to comparing America to Europe states or Canada neither are a good comparison because they are individual states NOT 50 UNITED states. When the USA joined forces with each other it was not to share the burden of one state with that of another; it was to solidify our borders for security from abroad. That is why we have 50 BONs and a group is working on the compact nursing states.[/QUOTE



    Canada is made up of ten provinces and three territories, all with very different and diverse populations. Confederation brought the country together for a common good. Each province has it's own College of Nursing to govern nurses, just as Physicians, Pharmacists are governed by theirs.

    The UK is made up of Scotland, England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. There are regional differences in how the NHS works.

    You need to realize that the world isn't what FOX news tells you it is.
    Sisyphus, rntj, and JMBnurse like this.
  7. Visit  Asystole RN} profile page
    4
    Quote from SA2009
    toekneejo: First, I think no one wants to take anything taken from the paycheck.

    Secondly, please explain to me what is difference of paying a premium to an insurance company or paying the premium to the government. Do you actually trust health insurance companies more than your own government?

    Also, when growing up under a universal healthcare plan, I always saw it like this: I don't mind at all paying my premium (or having it taken from the government), when person xyz who just had a car accident and needs to be rushed to the ER is cared for because I know when I get into a car crash, I will be cared for as well.

    Now, paying to an insurance company, if I develop certain illnesses, I may or MAY NOT get medical benefits, although I have paid my premiums for the last 10 years...
    A small difference can be that one is compulsory and the other is voluntary.

    I have many outpatient private pay patients, that chose of their free will not to purchase insurance. I have one patient who's husband is a retired accountant who did not believe in purchasing private insurance, he instead saved every month and profited from the interest. They are cash paying for the wife's chemo. Surprisingly, hospitals are willing to give deep discounts to those who are willing to pay for their treatment up front.

    He made it work and I support his right to decide his level of participation in healthcare.

    And yes, I trust about anyone/anything more than the government.
    realmaninuniform, mc3, SA2009, and 1 other like this.
  8. Visit  Asystole RN} profile page
    0
    [QUOTE=Fiona59;6968108]
    Quote from toekneejo
    . . .

    As to comparing America to Europe states or Canada neither are a good comparison because they are individual states NOT 50 UNITED states. When the USA joined forces with each other it was not to share the burden of one state with that of another; it was to solidify our borders for security from abroad. That is why we have 50 BONs and a group is working on the compact nursing states.[/QUOTE



    Canada is made up of ten provinces and three territories, all with very different and diverse populations. Confederation brought the country together for a common good. Each province has it's own College of Nursing to govern nurses, just as Physicians, Pharmacists are governed by theirs.

    The UK is made up of Scotland, England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. There are regional differences in how the NHS works.

    You need to realize that the world isn't what FOX news tells you it is.
    Spare me.

    Not only are their significant governmental differences, but demographic as well.

    United States
    314 Million population (11.2 Million Illegal Immigrants)
    72% White

    United Kingdom
    62 Million population
    92% White

    Canada
    34 Million population
    98% White
  9. Visit  toekneejo} profile page
    0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    A small difference can be that one is compulsory and the other is voluntary.

    I have many outpatient private pay patients, that chose of their free will not to purchase insurance. I have one patient who's husband is a retired accountant who did not believe in purchasing private insurance, he instead saved every month and profited from the interest. They are cash paying for the wife's chemo. Surprisingly, hospitals are willing to give deep discounts to those who are willing to pay for their treatment up front.

    He made it work and I support his right to decide his level of participation in healthcare.

    And yes, I trust about anyone/anything more than the government.
    Asystole, I would like permission to copy and paste this line of thought and with your permission I would like to also ask if I can go back and take a few others of yours? I know I could do it without asking (you'd never know) but I am creating a huge paper on this subject since you first posted it and as a courtesy I won't if you are not comfortable with it. I am appreciative to you for starting this discussion. I always knew (in my gut) why I felt like I did, however, whenever I'd think about it, the subject was soooo convoluted that it would give me a headache and I couldn't ever get to the meat of the argument. This has been very enlightening!! So kudos to you!!!!!!
    Last edit by toekneejo on Oct 3, '12
  10. Visit  SA2009} profile page
    5
    It's great that your patient is able to do; regretfully, many people live paycheck from paycheck. What are they to do? What are people to do who do not have family here or close by or whose family does not have much either.

    It always comes down to the bottom line that who has money can afford to whatever. Others, who are not as fortunate, I mean this as having worked as teacher in public schools with children who may ever reach the American dream and worked in factories where even the CEO/CFO gave up their monthly payments who literally covered the payroll of 120 workers who lived paycheck to paycheck, what are they to do?

    Please tell m, though, if you do not have anything saved up, you have lost your job for whatever reason and thus your healthcare coverage, you require meds that run in the hundreds a month, you're working a job that is poorly paid, no partner, now you have a medical crises but you don't want to quit your job so you get MediCare - please tell, what can you do??
    Sisyphus, VanLpn, JMBnurse, and 2 others like this.
  11. Visit  Asystole RN} profile page
    0
    Quote from toekneejo
    Asystole, I would like permission to copy and paset this line of thought and with your permission I would like to also ask if I can go back and take a few others of yours? I know I could do it without asking (you'd never know) but I am creating a huge paper on this subject since you first posted it and as a courtesy I won't if you are not comfortable with it. I am appreciative to you for starting this discussion. I always knew (in my gut) why I felt like I did, however, whenever I'd think about it, the subject was soooo convoluted that it would give me a headache and I couldn't ever get to the meat of the argument. This has been very enlightening!! So kudos to you!!!!!!
    There have been a lot of interesting viewpoints in this thread, thank you.

    Copy whatever you wish.
  12. Visit  toekneejo} profile page
    1
    [QUOTE=Fiona59;6968108]
    Quote from toekneejo
    . . .


    You need to realize that the world isn't what FOX news tells you it is.
    Trust me I do not take my information from Fox news, so many people want to blame media. The networks are liberal, the talk radio and cable are republican blah blah blah. I believe ALL the networks are nothing more than propaganda outlets ( that are only interested in their ratings and reporting drama and skewed info make for some good "news" for ratings) and the republicans and democrats are both so removed from what is happening in my neighborhood that even when they are spouting something it isn't what matters!! I do not want to offend anyone. But last time I checked it was still legal to state my opinion and for me to listen to yours. (We'll see if that is the next thing they try to change)


    I believe that Washington DC is a business whose main goal is to be beneficial to those in Washington DC the only way the people of this beautiful land are going to help straighten it out is to cut back on the influence Washington has on us.
    mc3 likes this.
  13. Visit  Fiona59} profile page
    2
    [QUOTE=Asystole RN;6968146]
    Quote from Fiona59

    Spare me.



    United States
    314 Million population (11.2 Million Illegal Immigrants)
    72% White

    United Kingdom
    62 Million population
    92% White

    CanadaAccording to the 2001 Census data, almost 4 million people in Canada identified themselves as
    being members of visible minority groups. This represented 13.4% of Canada’s total population.
    This proportion has been steadily increasing, and between 1996 and 2001, the number of visible
    minorities in Canada grew by 25%.
    [FONT=SymbolMT][FONT=SymbolMT]
    The largest visible minority group in Canada is Chinese. In 2001, approximately one million
    Chinese people lived here, accounting for 25.8% of Canada’s visible minority population.
    [FONT=SymbolMT][FONT=SymbolMT]
    The second largest group is South Asian – with 917,075 people representing 23% of the visible
    minority population – followed by those identifying themselves as Black, with 662,210
    individuals or 16.6% of the visible minority population. Combined, these three groups accounted
    for about two-thirds of Canada’s visible minority population in 2001.
    Number
    % of Visible
    Minority Population
    Black 662,210 16.6%
    South Asian 917,075 23.0%
    Chinese 1,029,395 25.8%
    Korean 100,660 2.5%
    Japanese 73,315 1.8%
    Southeast Asian 198,880 5.0%
    Filipino 308,575 7.7%
    Arab/ West Asian 303,965 7.6%
    Latin American 216,975 5.4%
    Visible minority, not included elsewhere 98,920 2.5%
    Multiple visible minority 73,875 1.9%
    Total 3,983,845 100%
    Source: Calculations by the Canadian Council on Social Development using data from
    Statistics Canada's 2001 Census

    34 Million population
    98% White
    Really? Ever been to Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary or Montreal?http://www.ccsd.ca/factsheets/demogr...mographics.pdf

    First Nations make up roughly 4% of the population. So you are wrong right there.
    JMBnurse and wooh like this.
  14. Visit  Asystole RN} profile page
    2
    Quote from SA2009
    It's great that your patient is able to do; regretfully, many people live paycheck from paycheck. What are they to do? What are people to do who do not have family here or close by or whose family does not have much either.

    It always comes down to the bottom line that who has money can afford to whatever. Others, who are not as fortunate, I mean this as having worked as teacher in public schools with children who may ever reach the American dream and worked in factories where even the CEO/CFO gave up their monthly payments who literally covered the payroll of 120 workers who lived paycheck to paycheck, what are they to do?

    Please tell m, though, if you do not have anything saved up, you have lost your job for whatever reason and thus your healthcare coverage, you require meds that run in the hundreds a month, you're working a job that is poorly paid, no partner, now you have a medical crises but you don't want to quit your job so you get MediCare - please tell, what can you do??
    I personally feel as though we can and should provide basic healthcare available to all Americans. I do not believe that the federal government should be doing this though, this is an issue for the individual states to decide. The healthcare needs of California are unique and so are Arizona's, allow the individual states to pay for and administer as they like. A person in Arizona should not pay for a person in San Francisco.

    Teachers are NOT POOR. For the amount of hours a week/days a year they work plus their benefits, their pay is typically much higher than any nurse of comparable experience and education. You are listening to union propaganda too much. I come from a family of teachers, many of my friends are teachers. I sure do wish I could have every holiday off and only work nine months a year...

    I am not fortunate. I worked my ass off, made intelligent decisions, and invested in my future in the form of education (which I paid for).

    Again, I think that a basic level of care can and should be provided for, but decided and administered at the state level. The feds have no business being the healthcare business.
    joanna73 and alwayslookingnp like this.


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