Concealed Carry...as a nurse?

[mcknis]

With the current news over gun control and gun rights legislation being pushed through Congress as a result of the tragedies of Aurora, CO, Newtown, CT and the others like them, the thought of concealed carry among healthcare workers has got my attention peaked. Recently, another Allnurses member started a thread (up to 22 pages presently) about what nurses can do as a result of these horrific events.

This post is not meant to reflect my personal stance on this issue, although I can inform that I am not a CCL holder (however interested), nor is it meant to be a bashing session from either side, but I am interested in seeing how many individuals have their concealed carry license, and if they carry while they are at work (and, yes I am well aware of the legal stance healthcare facilities take as being gun free zones)?

I, also, am aware of some of our members being both nurses and current/former law enforcement officers, so what is your take on this issue?

[loriangel14, RN]

I don't envy you. I don't lock my doors.

[uRNmyway, ASN, RN]

Oh yeah, you would here.

I live in a fairly good part of town, compared to most.

This summer, in the complex next to mine, had a police shooting. Naked man with a knife running around outdoors, saying he was gonna hurt someone. Cops had to shoot him down.

Couple months later, 3am, look outside my window to see like 8 cop cars, lights flashing, police officers in SWAT gear, calling on the loudspeaker for one of my neighbors to come out with his hands up. After like an hour of this, he opens the door, they tackle and cuff him. Turns out he hadn't done anything wrong, but still. If this is happening where I am, imagine the shadier neighborhoods?

[loriangel14, RN]

Uggh. I am glad I am up here.

[nrsang97, BSN, RN]

I have worked at one facility where the security guards carry guns, and the one which they didn't . Deffinately felt safer when the security guards carried guns.

[Calabria, BSN, RN]

Tuck a gun into scrub pants. That try to fall down under the weight of my phone. Sounds super safe!

Safest I ever felt walking to and from a hospital parking lot was at THE inner city hospital. There's a cop every few feet there. All less likely to shoot me than I am to shoot myself or to lose my gun to someone who would then shoot me.

I'm shocked how many people think it's safe to leave a gun in their car. Because if your car is broken into, arming the person is the thing to do?

You bring up some valid points. The shooting I referenced in my first post on this thread happened in suburbia. Their security is still horrendous, from what I last heard. I wouldn't feel safe there at all, compared to an inner-city ER.

I do take issue with how you'd carry your weapon, however. You wouldn't simply drop it in your pocket. There are holsters that you can attach to your lower leg/calf area. They do not connect to your clothes, and scrubs can be so baggy that a weapon could be hidden there without too much difficulty (unless somebody scrutinizes your legs all night looking for one). Googling "leg holster" will produce many results for you (including ones that you can wear as a belt, on your thigh, etc.).

[CT Pixie, BSN, RN]

In Connecticut you get a permit to carry a handgun. You don't need a special one to carry consealed, your permit is for open/consealed carry. You can carry your firearm any way you chose (I chose consealed).

My college as well as the hospital we are connected with have a gun-free zone and if you are caught with a firearm..well, lets just say it wouldn't be pretty. And for that reason I do not, ever have my handgun on my person or in any bag/backpack I have with me. It stays at home.

I carry consealed but not at school or clinicals at the hospital. I do not leave it in the car for fear of someone stealing my car and getting a 2 fer...a car and a gun. Of course the one place I *DO* want to carry is my walk from my car to the campus or hospital. Its a very dangerous area. And while you can call security, they will walk you to your car from campus or the hospital, they don't escort you on your way from your car to either palce..they aren't armed either.

[AngelfireRN, MSN, RN, APRN]

My philosophy? If you're not where there's a firearm handy and things go south, you're going to do two things...call someone WITH a gun, and then pray that they get there in time.

I was raised in the country and was presented with my first shotgun at age 8. I learned to shoot, but never wanted to go hunting. Gratuitous shooting just never did it for me.

I'm not an advocate for pistol-whipping patients into submission, as was apparently percieved by some who read my initial post, but I do like the knowledge of having the means to protect myself and my friends if the situation calls for it. Call it culture, call it hick ethics, call it what you will. It works for us.

And Mr Heston had the right idea..."From my cold dead hands!".

[macawake, MSN]

I am from Canada, where guns for anything other than hunting are VERY uncommon. Because of this and the general laid-back, non-violent mentality there I used to be pretty anti-gun. My opinion on that has changed quite a bit, especially since I moved to a city with a substantially higher violent crime rate. And since I became a mother. I would die, or kill with no hesitation for that little girl, if anyone were to threaten her safety.

There was recently a possibility I might get a job at an inner city hospital, night shift. When my fiance found out he started gun shopping for me. The idea of me walking to and from my car in the parking lot in the dark scared him, and he wanted me to be able to defend myself. When I asked him about getting a taser instead, he explained how you have one shot with a taser, and however many your clip will hold with a gun. Since I have terrible aim, and would also like to be able to stay safe, I agreed on the gun.

I would definitely not bring it on whatever unit I worked. I would leave it in a locked place. It would not be for use DURING work.

I just don't get, with all the threads we see on AN about violence against nurses, threats made to us by disgruntled patients and their families, etc...Why is it so crazy to want to protect ourselves?

I don't think it's crazy to want to keep yourself and your loved ones safe and I can understand that walking to and from your car in a dark parking lot can be unsettling.

If possible park your car in a well-lit area of the parking lot. Do you have security guards at the hospital you work? If so, is it possible for them to have an increased presence in the parking lot at shift changes? Do you have co-workers who finish at the same time as you who you could leave with as a group? I personally find that small measures like these will go a long way. Have a habit of scanning your surroundings, a little situational awareness is a good thing (perhaps you already do this). As far as threats made by disgruntled patients and family, does you employer provide any training in conflict management? There are lots of ways do defuse/de-escalate intense situations that are on the verge of getting ugly. A decade in law enforcement tells me that most situations can be solved. Most but not all. I think conflict management should be mandatory for all healthcare staff, we work with people who often are in emotional and volatile states.

It scares me that you despite being aware that you "have terrible aim" are willing to have a gun. Even people who have good aim can be dangerous in a stressful situation. Do you think that one of your co-workers about to enter his or her car some 20 or 30 yards away from you could be at risk when you start firing you gun? I do. Trust me, faced with a potential assailant you will be afflicted with tunnel vision and be completely unaware of what was 20 yards behind your target. If it's dark it might also be impossible to see that far even if you field of vision hadn't shrunk. Every single round that doesn't hit your intended target can hit an innocent bystander. Besides, a gun is only useful if you see an attack coming. Otherwise there are several self-defence techniques that will serve you better. Jiu-jitsu and krav maga work for me.

Law enforcement officers and military personnel do not only practise a lot at a range to become proficient. They are also put in harms way on a regular basis. That in my opinion makes them safer when it comes to handling firearms. With good training and being exposed to danger regularly they increase their chances of keeping their cool and make rational decisions under pressure.

It's pretty much the same as a new grad with his/her first coding patient or major trauma. They'd be very much stressed out and their usefulness debatable (been there ). Compare that to an ED nurse with five, ten or twenty years of experience. Calm and proficient.

On a general note. I see many signs of a scared society in this thread. People feeling unsafe arming themselves to increase their sense of security. I'm not convinced that that is the solution to the problem.

[macawake, MSN]

I have been carrying before CC came about . I carry everywhere including work. I have only used my revolver once and that was to frighten a guy who attempted to rob me, he ran off.

Wanna know why there is a 2nd amendment ? Read history, the most prolific murderers in the world have always been and will always be governments. Murder by the millions, men women, and children. Read history.

I don't know if I'm misinterpreting the meaning of your post? You carry a revolver to protect yourself against your government? Against another nation's government? Your government has nuclear capability, unmanned aerial vehicles and much more in their bag of tricks.. I'm not sure what that revolver would do in the very, very unlikely event that your government would turn on you.

I have read history and I don't have the recipe to prevent all present and future conflicts in the world. I doubt that more guns will do the trick.

[tewdles, RN]

When I worked home care in the greater Detroit area I did use my CCW and carried my handgun often. I have a holster that fits in the small of my back so it was not problematic for my scrubs and it was NOT apparent that I was carrying.

When I visited in facilities or was at the office I locked the handgun in my trunk.

I never had to use it, but I did have an occasion to consider it once and the coolness of the weapon was reassuring to me when I reached back with my hand and verbally warned the man to NOT approach me. I will admit that my knees were wobbly when I reached my car and I left homecare not terribly long after that.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

Oh sorry, I didn't know you moved.:) Yeah I guess the crime would be pretty bad down there.

And at THE inner city hospital in Atlanta, there is a HUGE police presence. Way safer there than a few blocks down at the university.

[carrielwb]

I never said I brandished my weapon. It's there in the event that someone carries out a threat to enter the clinic or return to the clinic armed. I don't find it unprofessional to protect myself and those I work with. In the 2 or so years I've been there, my manager asked me to bring it in one time. It stayed in my desk, in the holster, and was never brought out again after that day. This was after a threat by a former patient was made, and it was not my decision to bring it inside.

My weapon has only ever been fired at a target, on a practice range. I have never brandished it to anyone, at any time. It is in my car if I have need of it, because I drive almost an hour each way to work, through questionable areas and on back roads. I keep my certifications current, and I am well within my legal rights to keep a weapon on my person if I so choose. I choose not to.

Call it unprofessional if you want. Be embarrassed and ashamed for yourself, not for me. I never said it was used as an intimidation tactic, not once. But my boss, my OM, and our local law enforcement would tend to disagree with you.

And before you judge me, please consider this...I work in a clinic that dispenses controlled substances. We routinely dismiss patients or refuse to prescribe controls to patients that fail drug screens or fail to comply with clinic policy. I practice in a rural area, where about 90% of the general populace is armed. They bring their weapons to the clinic. Now, you tell me...given the area, given the type of clinic, and given the fact that there are usually one or more young children present ( two of them under one year of age), why on EARTH is it unprofessional of me to have a weapon in my car in the event that it might be needed?

As was said, I am within my rights, within the law, and bring the weapon inside only upon the request of my supervising physician. And those are the only entities I need to please.

Angelfire, I think your manager has lost their mind if he/she thinks its a good idea to ask you to bring in your gun to work. I am not going to debate whether bringing your gun into your workplace us unprofessional but from a safety standpoint I think it's a potential nightmare. If you work in a place where the potential for violent patients carrying firearms is that great then your employer needs a plan. What if your manger told you to bring in your gun and there was a vac outcome related to someone else getting their hands on it? What if you needed to use it and there was a serious injury/ fatality? What if innocent person was harmed. Potential life altering scenarios for yourself and your employer.