Are nurses forced to assist abortions?

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Dec 1, 2011

If you look at it strictly from a legal perspective, this doesn't carry much weight since it is currently illegal for any public authority to force a healthcare provider to assist in an abortion if it violates his or her religious beliefs or moral convictions.

I think this is where the word assist is in debate. The nurses in NJ were given a pass on the procedure, they are refusing to give pre op and post op care...where do you draw the line. Do they have the right to never take care of women who had a procedure they felt morally or religiously opposed to?

tamara1313 · Dec 1, 2011

I've traveled all over the country working as an RN for years, and I have learned from the experience the following situations;

1) You are forced because it is an emergency in the operating room, and you are on call and there IS NO ONE ELSE.

2) You are forced because someone who is above you or in charge is not flexible with adjusting the schedule.

3) The charge nurse jumps in after you have complained and takes the assignment, becomes very annoyed and talks about you to other staff members that you are REFUSING an assignment.

***So sorry, but I've seen it happen way to many times, all scenarios, and no one will stick up for you. The fact is, abortions elective, or missed, are all surgical procedures done within an operating room setting. If you can not accept the fact that it is part of your job description, than you are not an asset to any OR, and should look into other departments. With respect to whatever beliefs that you have, it is unfair for other staff to have to pick up the slack.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Dec 1, 2011

I've traveled all over the country working as an RN for years, and I have learned from the experience the following situations;
1) You are forced because it is an emergency in the operating room, and you are on call and there IS NO ONE ELSE.
2) You are forced because someone who is above you or in charge is not flexible with adjusting the schedule.
3) The charge nurse jumps in after you have complained and takes the assignment, becomes very annoyed and talks about you to other staff members that you are REFUSING an assignment.
***So sorry, but I've seen it happen way to many times, all scenarios, and no one will stick up for you. The fact is, abortions elective, or missed, are all surgical procedures done within an operating room setting. If you can not accept the fact that it is part of your job description, than you are not an asset to any OR, and should look into other departments. With respect to whatever beliefs that you have, it is unfair for other staff to have to pick up the slack.

These nurses are not OR nurses, they work pre and post op......great points.

Rob72, ASN, RN · Dec 1, 2011

Some interesting responses. To the OP, as noted, depending on the sub-specialty, a qualified no. obviously, in neurology, its not a huge issue for myself or co-workers.

I'm not sure that I would say that this is a hot topic because of the political posturing possible, but more that it is a conflict of situational vs. foundational ethics, and having a logical philosophical framework for practice.

Alcohol abuse is illegal(or at least a majority of the behaviors that attend alcholism); we treat alcoholics. Dealing with the immediate need would not seem to be an issue in either case.

The situational ethics become problematic, because situations may change radically and quickly. It was not long ago when Down's and other disabled fetuses would readily be aborted. As of less than 20 years ago, it was very common, in certain parts of the world, for female fetuses to be terminated. Legal/illegal would seem to be a less than optimal model for basing ethical practice.

The extremism on both ends of the spectrum have created the fervor in the debate, and it is very much a matter of "religion" for both pro and con. The Greek root of "religion" meaning to, "return to bondage"...

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Dec 2, 2011

As most other posters have stated, there is a very simple solution to your question. I have been a nurse for 4 years and I have never once had to deal with anything like this working in pediatrics/neurology though I have, of course, taken care of patients who have previously terminated pregnancies. (I'm sure I have also encountered mothers of patients who have done so and probably co-workers just based on how common it is but it's not something that ever comes up.) If you CHOOSE to work in the OR, L&D or at Planned Parenthood, it is reasonable to expect that abortions will happen in those settings and that you may be expected to assist.

The only situation in which I can imagine it coming up in my job would be if one of our patients on treatment for chemotherapy or taking a number of known teratogenic anti-epileptics that cannot be stopped got pregnant by accident. Abortion is usually an outpatient procedure so I can't even imagine that I would encounter it in those incidents. If I really stretch my brain to its limits, I could imagine that a teenager is found to be pregnant just with the pre-op pregnancy screen when she gets admittedly emergently for a newly diagnosed malignant brain tumor or something. In that case (which I have never actually seen happen) I could see how it MAY happen that she would choose to terminate the pregnancy which could possibly happen while she is already in the OR for a tumor biopsy/resection/whatever it may be (provided that GYN could work out a mutal OR time with Neurosurgery). And yes I would be expected to care for her post-op since all post-op cranis end up on my floor. Though I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this; in this situation my job would be to be the bedside nurse and care for her in the same way that all post-op cranis are cared for. It's not my job to cast moral judgment on my patients.

pockunit, ADN, RN · Dec 2, 2011

:) No need for snarky comments. I will gladly post more information/clarification, but my two best sources are well-respected MDs who are doing international healthcare consulting in Columbia at the moment (returning next week I believe). I do know that this was addressed at the Catholic Medical Association 80th Annual Meeting just last month here in Phoenix.

Yes, I'd love to see their sources for this information, because that quote simply isn't true and I'd love to know how they came to that conclusion.

anie10 · Dec 4, 2011

Just curious... Where did the OP say they wouldn't provide care to someone following the procedure?

I just looked again and all they asked was if they could be forced to participate...:confused:

Everyone's freaking out and quick to add their personal feelings to an innocent question - glad I didnt ask... I dont think my throat would fit all y'all jumping down it.

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Dec 5, 2011

Just curious... Where did the OP say they wouldn't provide care to someone following the procedure?
I just looked again and all they asked was if they could be forced to participate...:confused:
Everyone's freaking out and quick to add their personal feelings to an innocent question - glad I didnt ask... I dont think my throat would fit all y'all jumping down it.

There was an article posted about nurses in NJ who said they were "forced to participate in abortions." They weren't OR nurses, they were pre-op and PACU nurses who did not want to care for the patient before or after the procedure. That's where all those comments came from.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Dec 6, 2011

:) No need for snarky comments. I will gladly post more information/clarification, but my two best sources are well-respected MDs who are doing international healthcare consulting in Columbia at the moment (returning next week I believe). I do know that this was addressed at the Catholic Medical Association 80th Annual Meeting just last month here in Phoenix.

No snark, just requiring a certain amount of proof, given the amount of data and logic to the contrary.

Given that no hospital that receives federal funds provides ALL services available, it would be virtual impossible to enforce such a law. Most medical schools do not require indepth abortion training, beyond emergency issues. Many hospitals do not have access to abortion providers. You cannot force an MD to provide care that they do not feel competent in, nor force them all to go back and train in that specialty, especially given the current lack of adept providers. Many smaller hospitals that receive federal funds don't provide more advanced cardiac procedures, or advanced neurological care, certain surgeries. Do you think that the need to perform abortions is going to override those other priorities for developing care in a facility?

In FL, some facilities have few birthes at all much less opportunities for providing "a certain number" of abortions.

The reason that we question such an encompassing statement, is that it would logistically not be workable. Thus the request for "proof".

I have also seen "respected MDs" that swear that to a number of things that are false.

rainbowskin · Dec 7, 2011

As a nurse you really can't dicatate patient's care plan.. if they want an abortion you just have to assist medically. Your judgements are out the door per say. If you really disagree with abortion and are asked to assist in your job you could say you aren't comfortable or whatever but that's not nursing and you are totally in the wrong position. The patient makes the decisions on their care you are just there to assist medically. If you feel uncomfortable with abortion stay away from that...

allnurses Guide · Dec 30, 2011

it is illegal for a hospital to force an employee to participate in abortion.

my state nurses association recommends writing a letter to management informing them of your conscience restrictions so they can plan to staff a willing nurse.

42 usc sec. 300a-701/07/2011 (111-383)
title 42 - the public health and welfare
chapter 6a - public health service
subchapter viii - population research and voluntary family planning

sec. 300a-7. sterilization or abortion
-statute-
prohibition of public officials and public authorities from imposition of certain requirements contrary to religious beliefs or moral convictions

the receipt of any grant, contract, loan, or loan guarantee under the public health service act [42 u.s.c. 201 et seq.], the community mental health centers act [42 u.s.c. 2689 et seq.], or the developmental disabilities services and facilities construction act [42 u.s.c. 6000 et seq.] by any individual or entity does not authorize any court or any public official or other public authority to require -

(1) such individual to perform or assist in the performance of any sterilization procedure or abortion if his performance or assistance in the performance of such procedure or abortion would be contrary to his religious beliefs or moral convictions;

no entity which receives a grant, contract, loan, or loan guarantee under the public health service act [42 u.s.c. 201 et seq.], the community mental health centers act [42 u.s.c. 2689 et seq.], or the developmental disabilities services and facilities construction act [42 u.s.c. 6000 et seq.] after june 18, 1973, may -

(a) discriminate in the employment, promotion, or termination of employment of any physician or other health care personnel, or

(b) discriminate in the extension of staff or other privileges to any physician or other health care personnel, because he performed or assisted in the performance of a lawful sterilization procedure or abortion, because he refused to perform or assist in the performance of such a procedure or abortion on the grounds that his performance or assistance in the performance of the procedure or abortion would be contrary to his religious beliefs or moral convictions, or because of his religious beliefs or moral convictions respecting sterilization procedures or abortions.

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/f...20

dzadzey, MSN, RN · Dec 31, 2011

Unless you're willing to set your prejudices aside and take all patients as they come to you, in whatever circumstance...nursing may not be for you.