Complying with CA BON deficient courses

steppybay · Nov 1, 2013

Hi all, I'd to ask regarding that deficiency in OB-MS thing. Is it possible to enroll that in the Philippines? or does that have to be enrolled within the state of California.
Thanks!

There was someone here who did that by taking her deficiencies in another state and got her ATT in CA and recently took the NCLEX-RN, but recently there's been some doubts of her story.

There have been some recent developments that the CA BRN will allow the deficiencies to be re-taken in the Phils. The deans in PH are working on getting these "approved schools and courses", that's great, but will it meet the CA BRN requirements? I say unless the CHED have an actual CA BRN representative on site (which I doubt) to oversee this, it could be nothing more than a shell game in the Phils.

Let's hope that these authorized schools are going to be "approved" by the CA BRN (and other states enforcing the concurrency rules). As you all know, the deans at just about every PH school can tell us anything (as they have before...."oh, don't worry, our school has no problems with the CA BRN...phooey).

The concern that I am thinking about is how the PH schools plans to do these with the already enrolled PH students on how to conduct the clinicals? I mean are they going to bump down all the PH students to the bottom of the list to make room for the "newly enrolled" PH grads just so the deficiency can be made up?

It's already so crowded, I'm sure the current students will loudly object to them being treated as second rate students who already have been waiting patiently for their turn, then told to "move out of way" and make room for your ex-grads.

The "approved schools and courses" list have not yet been completed as of this time, but supposedly they are still working on it. It might be the best of everyone's interest to fire away to your respective deans and question the heck out of them on "what's the real story"?

Let's hear that they will guarantee 100% plus these "approved curriculum" will be 100% guarantee to meet the CA BRN requirements or else, they will reimburse you 100% for the airfare, meals and any housing expenses. No verbal promises, put it in writing, Mr. Dean, Mrs. Dean, Ms. Dean.

At the end of the day, it's the CA BRN and other state's BON that will make the final decision on the approval and granting of the ATT. So there better be some guarantees from these schools that there will be NO problems, like 100%.

Let's hope that the PH groups can better secure the system so that whatever documentation is received can not be duplicated by the greedy scammers so that it will cause further microscope reviewing of the document(s) by the state BON's.

Nothing worse than getting slapped in the face and kicked in the stomach (again) after spending time and money to go back and re-take the courses and finding out (again) the CHED, PRC and PNA have messed up (again, like they did with going from 5-5-5 to 3-3-3, only to be still not correct to resolve the problem). Epic fail.

leemoohan7 · Jun 13, 2014

for your info and for everyone who has been battled by this concurrency issue.... Philippine Nursing Curriculum requires concurrency of theory and practice. The problem actually of CBRN is that, they look into the exhibit forms and made it a basis for the clinical portion of the subjects - which is definitely wrong. The records (like number of actual and assisted deliveries) in the exhibit forms are primarily used by Filipino nurses to be eligible to take the Philippine Nursing Licensure Examination. That is why, even when we are done with our clinicals for a certain subject like OB, we make sure that after graduation we have to complete the required number of cases to be qualified for Phil. Licensure. But it doesnt mean that we delay the clinical portion of any subject. In fact, one or two entries/cases in the exhibit forms corresponds with the time of the theoretical portion of the case because it was taken simultaneously and all other cases were done after graduation as compliance for the requirement for Phil. licensure.

steppybay · Jun 13, 2014

for your info and for everyone who has been battled by this concurrency issue.... Philippine Nursing Curriculum requires concurrency of theory and practice. The problem actually of CBRN is that, they look into the exhibit forms and made it a basis for the clinical portion of the subjects - which is definitely wrong. The records (like number of actual and assisted deliveries) in the exhibit forms are primarily used by Filipino nurses to be eligible to take the Philippine Nursing Licensure Examination. That is why, even when we are done with our clinicals for a certain subject like OB, we make sure that after graduation we have to complete the required number of cases to be qualified for Phil. Licensure. But it doesnt mean that we delay the clinical portion of any subject. In fact, one or two entries/cases in the exhibit forms corresponds with the time of the theoretical portion of the case because it was taken simultaneously and all other cases were done after graduation as compliance for the requirement for Phil. licensure.

However, you are missing ONE very important and crucial point in your thoughts, ALL of the above must also be completed BEFORE one graduates. It is way too late after that, you're now out of the concurrency compliance.

leemoohan7 · Jun 13, 2014

not really. as i've said its not a requirement of any school :)

steppybay · Jun 13, 2014

not really. as i've said its not a requirement of any school :)

While I didn't read that in your last comments, ANY courses, classes, cases, clinicals taken AFTER graduation does NOT count as being "completed or concurrent" in the USA where the concurrency rules apply. This may be fine within the confines for the CHED, PNA and PRC and any Phils school, but it will not pass in CA.

In fact, if the various USA course evaluation agencies really "knew" their jobs, they would be strictly enforcing the same concurrency rules in the other 13-14 US states and denying even more PH applicants.

They would actually be agreeing with the Phillipine Nurses Assoc of America (PNAA) with respect as to what the CA BRN are enforcing now. Here's that link of the PNAA stance: https://allnurses.com/nurse-registration/position-statement-concurrency-901106.html

leemoohan7 · Jun 14, 2014

i came to read the link. obviously, the culprit of the problem is the lack of proper documentation of PHIL NSG SCHOOLS. Both the theory and practice should be finished prior to graduation. If you are a Filipino, u must have understood about EXHIBIT FORMS- It is where cases are written or documented. The forms will not show how many hours were spent in the clinicals, but it will only present the cases a student did. Even a student has graduated and completed both theory and clinical, he or she is still not eligible to take the Phil. licensure exam. the exhibits forms are used as a proof to show the required number of cases done and should never be used by CBRN as a reliable documentation to scrutinize if the student has spent a clinical hours congruent to the subjects taken. Its a mere list of cases. If the cases did not reach the required number, then a student cannot take licensing. It will not show that the student did not have clinicals when s/he was still a student. Yet, the CBRN are asking these documents and make it equivalent documentation for students' clinicals. As what PNA has claimed, they will make efforts to improve documentation of the RLE portion of the nsg program. The CBRN must resort to conducting a thorough investigation on this matter.If the issue they are raising is on concurrency, then the approriate documentation should be the one sent from the school and I believe no school can provide ever such for now, since no documentation of that kind - only a piece of paper with summary of the number of hours; with regards to actual dates, I dont think there is.

And if the CBRN advised FIL applicants to take additional courses, will these applicants perform actual delivery in the hospitals to mend the concurrency of cases presented in the exhibit.forms (if they are oointing out the cases in the form)? are students here in the US allowed to do the actual delivery? And why these Fil graduates who are all BSN cannot be qualified to take NCLEX RN, when one with associate degree can easily qualify himself?

steppybay · Jun 16, 2014

i came to read the link. obviously, the culprit of the problem is the lack of proper documentation of PHIL NSG SCHOOLS. Both the theory and practice should be finished prior to graduation. If you are a Filipino, u must have understood about EXHIBIT FORMS- It is where cases are written or documented. The forms will not show how many hours were spent in the clinicals, but it will only present the cases a student did. Even a student has graduated and completed both theory and clinical, he or she is still not eligible to take the Phil. licensure exam. the exhibits forms are used as a proof to show the required number of cases done and should never be used by CBRN as a reliable documentation to scrutinize if the student has spent a clinical hours congruent to the subjects taken. Its a mere list of cases. If the cases did not reach the required number, then a student cannot take licensing. It will not show that the student did not have clinicals when s/he was still a student. Yet, the CBRN are asking these documents and make it equivalent documentation for students' clinicals. As what PNA has claimed, they will make efforts to improve documentation of the RLE portion of the nsg program. The CBRN must resort to conducting a thorough investigation on this matter.If the issue they are raising is on concurrency, then the approriate documentation should be the one sent from the school and I believe no school can provide ever such for now, since no documentation of that kind - only a piece of paper with summary of the number of hours; with regards to actual dates, I dont think there is.
And if the CBRN advised FIL applicants to take additional courses, will these applicants perform actual delivery in the hospitals to mend the concurrency of cases presented in the exhibit.forms (if they are oointing out the cases in the form)? are students here in the US allowed to do the actual delivery? And why these Fil graduates who are all BSN cannot be qualified to take NCLEX RN, when one with associate degree can easily qualify himself?

Ahh, I too have been denied the ATT in CA, so I fully understand the situation at hand.

I've also come to better assess the issues as well since.

Yes, it's partly due to the way the documentation appears but it still does NOT address the problem with having to do cases later on, in some cases, some are even done weeks or months prior to the course itself and this also is out of the concurrency compliance.

The one solution is to either completely abolish the delivery cases or reduce to one case, nothing more than a single case.

Do you think the CHED and the other agencies and all the hospitals and clinics in the Phils will not fall even further behind with their own agendas without getting all this "free" assistance from the 10,000's of fresh PH students (to work or volunteer for free) as to who's going to help with these 1,000's of deliveries that the regular normal staffing nurses can't?

Which brings up the following subject in regards to the US not having to "do actual delivery" when compared to the PH students who do, since it's NOT a requirement from any of the 50 US states, it's not the same point, whereas in the PH, it is a requirement. Due to this reason, with this being a PH requirement, the CA BRN sees that as a needed passage to get to the PH licensing requirement.

So thus, there's NO need for any US educated nursing student to even look inside any sort of birthing centers or clinics or room and therefore, it's NOT a requirement to perform actual delivery.

The PH students who are BSN educated when compared to the ADN's (in CA just as an example) are allowed to take and can qualify to take the NCLEX-RN are because while the PH is a 4 year program and the usual ADN degree program is only 2 years in CA, the other two years prior to the main core nursing courses are more general education classes (English, history, math, geography etc) not directly related to nursing itself.

In light of my above comments, the reason the ones with the Associate degree can still qualify to take the NCLEX-RN is: (A). the ADN program is more clinically stronger and makes for more critical thinking as a nurse and (B). it's a known and documented evidence (year after year) that even US educated ADN's will pass the NCLEX-RN the first-time with a better than 80-85% passing rate than the PH with a BSN degree with a 30-35% passing rate. So about only 1-2 out of 10 USA educated will not pass the NCLEX while 7-8 PH grads will not make it the first time around and the passing rate decreases with each new attempts.

With the comment made about the CA BRN having to conduct a more thorough investigation on the concurrency matter, they have! In fact, it's NOT up to the CA BRN to do so, just present the proper documentation!

Along that same line of thought, do you think the CHED and all the other PH agencies should have proven their point that the CA BRN is incorrect from their Dec. 2012 meeting and to this day, even those graduating since 2013, there's been only a handful even getting approved. If the CHED and etal can't make the CA BRN see it right, who can?

As I've said before, I'm sure that all the CHED and etal got handed down with some very stern warnings from the CA BRN: get your act together or we will simply NOT approve any more nurses or grads from the PH, period. End of story. Do it right or lost it, no more excuses. Done.

moki9204 · Dec 14, 2014

hey guys. I know 2 guys who completed there deficiencies in just 9 weeks. They already got their license and working in a hospital (as evidenced by their instagram accounts). But then, they are not open about it. One guy, who i met here and got to talk with once in a while, doesnt get back to my emails, facebook, and instagram anymore. ( as they say, i was "seen-zoned" :)

Halen21 · Dec 19, 2014

Try calling Samuel Merritt University and Dominican University of CA both in bay area. i completed my MS and OB in SMU and one friend still taking subjects from Dominican. At this moment, I am still waiting for SMU to send my credentials to the BRN. hope this will help guys. I actually called all the BRN's list before amd these two schools contacted me and offered me the classes. Goodluck to everyone!

steppybay · Dec 23, 2014

Try calling Samuel Merritt University and Dominican University of CA both in bay area. i completed my MS and OB in SMU and one friend still taking subjects from Dominican. At this moment, I am still waiting for SMU to send my credentials to the BRN. hope this will help guys. I actually called all the BRN's list before amd these two schools contacted me and offered me the classes. Goodluck to everyone!

Congrats on your forward progress to being a CA RN soon!

Yes, from what I understand while the waiting list can be fairly long, it boils to those who can afford to pay the expen$ive up-front tuition co$t, so many do drop out when they come to the fact of trying to pay for the schooling cost, then, they simply start to call or contact those next in line and have their financial situation ready to go and pay.

Halen21 · Dec 24, 2014

Thank you! Yup thats another thing, these two schools are private schools and they require us to pay out of pocket no student loans But nonetheless they are good schools here in bay area. Again, Goodluck to everybody!

Nienna Celebrindal · Jan 11, 2015

CSU San Bernardino offered med/surg, psych and OB to foreign trained nurses the last 2 summers. I don't know what their plans are for the future but that may be an option.