You don't need RN experience to get an NP job - page 4

I'm a new grad Adult and Geri Primary Care NP. I do not have RN experience. Since I started seriously pounding the pavement in my job search, I have had numerous phone and in person interviews. ... Read More

  1. by   JKL33
    Quote from FullGlass
    I merely reported facts. I was very surprised at these comments and I didn't take them so seriously. And these comments occurred multiple times, not just once each. My intent was to provide a realistic picture of the job search market for new grad NPs in the Western US - California, Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Hawaii, and Montana - all states in which I interviewed. I also stated that my post would probably upset some people, as it clearly has.
    Fair enough; not upset. I thought there was something more to the two responses you chose to relay - which were "good for you!" and "you must be very smart" (because you're a DE grad) - but you say your intentions were honorable so we'll leave it at that.

    Take care ~
  2. by   angel337
    I have seen graduates from DE online programs receive offers quickly while some high ranking brick and mortar graduates struggled for over a year before finding a position.
    Many things factor in such as a good resume, work and volunteer experience as well as networking opportunities. Some new NPs pass over jobs because it doesn't meet their lifestyle needs in terms of work schedule, pay etc.
    I don't believe you need extensive RN experience at all to be a good NP. However, I do believe NP experience will always be more favorable. An HR representative told me that the reason why new NPs get overlooked for positions is because they continue to represent themselves as RNs instead of providers and the hiring managers view this as a person that will be difficult to train and not ready for the major responsibility that comes with being a NP.
  3. by   kadphilly
    Quote from angel337
    An HR representative told me that the reason why new NPs get overlooked for positions is because they continue to represent themselves as RNs instead of providers and the hiring managers view this as a person that will be difficult to train and not ready for the major responsibility that comes with being a NP.
    Yes! I have seen a lot of new NP's who highlight their RN experience to perspective employers rather than their NP education and clinical experience.

    In my experience in hiring NP's, the strength and prestige of the program and the clinical experience are always more important than RN experience.
  4. by   JBMmom
    Just like anything else, there's no one size fits all. For those that are able to go the direct NP route, I'm sure many are successful and some are not. For those that go a more traditional route of returning to school after gaining RN experience, I'm sure that many are successful and some are not. And almost everyone that does something in life finds that it is what worked best for them. I don't make assumptions about someone's intelligence or ability to succeed until I work with them. I've worked with graduates from Harvard and Yale that could barely work with other people and were not successful in their (non-nursing) careers. And I've worked with awesome coworkers that went to community colleges. People make the best of the opportunities they have in life, and you can find success in many ways. I'm not really sure why some people here are so bent on convincing everyone else that their idea of the best way, is everyone's best way.
  5. by   SICUmurseCCRN
    i CANNOT imagine being an NP without RN experience. thats all i have to say.
  6. by   SpankedInPittsburgh
    You don't have to imagine it. Its a reality that happens daily. Sometimes to good effect sometimes to bad. For good or bad states grant NP's licenses to practice based upon their list of qualifications. Like it or hate it. It's a reality and hating it is an option & your opinion but it seems that opinion doesn't count for much as the distractors don't get a vote.
  7. by   Dodongo
    Quote from kadphilly
    Yes! I have seen a lot of new NP's who highlight their RN experience to perspective employers rather than their NP education and clinical experience.

    In my experience in hiring NP's, the strength and prestige of the program and the clinical experience are always more important than RN experience.
    So that's another problem in and of itself, right? RN training/work absolutely does not substitute for NP training - that should be obvious to everyone. But it's not obvious to everyone. And NP schools do nothing but perpetuate this problem. More time should be required training at the provider level. Some programs require ~500 hours. That's 12 weeks if you did it full time. 3 months. So you receive more clinical training at the RN level than the NP level - where you are expected to work up a patient, make a diagnosis and prescribe treatment. You are expected to lead the healthcare team. Further, so many schools do not vet the preceptors or clinical sites found by the NP student (as they are expected to find these experiences on their own), and the student ends up with essentially a shadowing experience. So you have poor didactic education with 3 months worth of shadowing and the person is let loose. But we want independent practice. Come on.

    We need to standardize NP education. One accrediting body. Stricter standards for entry and progression through programs. Shut down the 100% fully online programs with no oversight of their students (i.e. open book testing, no lectures, finding their own preceptors who are not vetted by the school, etc). Flesh out the didactic training and significantly increase required clinical hours.

    I think so many candidates from poor schools are forced to rely on RN experience because to highlight their NP education would be disastrous during employment applications.
  8. by   Oldmahubbard
    To be fair, I don't see how nursing experience would help an outpatient primary care provider that much.
  9. by   djmatte
    Quote from Dodongo
    So that's another problem in and of itself, right? RN training/work absolutely does not substitute for NP training - that should be obvious to everyone. But it's not obvious to everyone. And NP schools do nothing but perpetuate this problem. More time should be required training at the provider level. Some programs require ~500 hours. That's 12 weeks if you did it full time. 3 months. So you receive more clinical training at the RN level than the NP level - where you are expected to work up a patient, make a diagnosis and prescribe treatment. You are expected to lead the healthcare team. Further, so many schools do not vet the preceptors or clinical sites found by the NP student (as they are expected to find these experiences on their own), and the student ends up with essentially a shadowing experience. So you have poor didactic education with 3 months worth of shadowing and the person is let loose. But we want independent practice. Come on.

    We need to standardize NP education. One accrediting body. Stricter standards for entry and progression through programs. Shut down the 100% fully online programs with no oversight of their students (i.e. open book testing, no lectures, finding their own preceptors who are not vetted by the school, etc). Flesh out the didactic training and significantly increase required clinical hours.

    I think so many candidates from poor schools are forced to rely on RN experience because to highlight their NP education would be disastrous during employment applications.
    Just out of curiosity, which online schools meet that low level criteria? I just graduated from frontier and can say at least from that they seem to have far stricter requirements than what you suggest. Proceed exams, more clinical hours than university of Michigan (680 to u of m 500), and while I had to find my own preceptor, they had to vet every one and see me actually working at my clinical sites.

    As someone else noted, everyone here course as path and maybe some have too strong an opinion regarding that path. I do worry that you lose the nurse aspect when you go direct entry. But that doesn't meant they will lose the ability to be a great provider. Primary care will be a whole new world for me given my periop and pain background, but it makes me more motivated to succeed.
  10. by   FullGlass
    Quote from djmatte
    Just out of curiosity, which online schools meet that low level criteria? I just graduated from frontier and can say at least from that they seem to have far stricter requirements than what you suggest. Proceed exams, more clinical hours than university of Michigan (680 to u of m 500), and while I had to find my own preceptor, they had to vet every one and see me actually working at my clinical sites.

    As someone else noted, everyone here course as path and maybe some have too strong an opinion regarding that path. I do worry that you lose the nurse aspect when you go direct entry. But that doesn't meant they will lose the ability to be a great provider. Primary care will be a whole new world for me given my periop and pain background, but it makes me more motivated to succeed.
    Frontier is a good school. There are plenty of good online programs. I think the concern is the for-profit schools that will admit anyone with a pulse.
  11. by   BCgradnurse
    Quote from FullGlass
    Frontier is a good school. There are plenty of good online programs. I think the concern is the for-profit schools that will admit anyone with a pulse.
    Agreed. Frontier is a fine, reputable school, but there are several for profit schools that will admit anyone with a pulse and a checkbook (and that goes for both DE and traditional entry). I also think NP programs should require more clinical hours. I'd also like to see a nationwide formal residency program and a better accrediting process. There's a lot of room for improvement.
  12. by   Dodongo
    Quote from BCgradnurse
    Agreed. Frontier is a fine, reputable school, but there are several for profit schools that will admit anyone with a pulse and a checkbook (and that goes for both DE and traditional entry). I also think NP programs should require more clinical hours. I'd also like to see a nationwide formal residency program and a better accrediting process. There's a lot of room for improvement.
    I've asked this on here before but how would one go about making improvements? I would love to effect change in NP education but I have no idea where to begin. What entity is ultimately in charge of NP programs and curriculum? CCNE?
  13. by   Dodongo
    And Frontier is not the problem. Online education is not the problem. I actually prefer it now that I have experienced it. (But not everything can be done online). For-profit, 100% online programs are the problem.

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