lying about clinical hours

  1. I have an issue and maybe some of you can make light of it for me. I am a practicing FNP and have been asked to be a preceptor for someone whom I work with. He is in FNP school and thankfully I am not his preceptor at this time. When I ask how his hours are coming along he says just fine. He is in his 2nd clinical rotation and is working full time. All of the NP programs I know of require 16 hours of clinical hours per week. He takes one day off his full time job weekly to complete an 8 hour clinical rotation. He states he can see 16 patients a day and count each patient as 1 hour of clinical since it takes him 1 hour to work up the patient, which is complete BS. I know he cannot take off work to have a second day of clinical so he just reports the fake hours. So basically will have half of the clinical hours needed. He just finished his first rotation a few weeks ago and I thought he would have been caught but wasn't. He also says that other people in the program are doing the same thing, only 1 day a week and counting it as 2.

    I and everyone I know that has completed a NP program has worked their butt off to complete their program and it just really irritates me that others just mend the program to their liking. Has anyone else experienced this?? It is really cheating in my opinion and I feel it takes integrity away from the profession and people are taking short cuts.
    •  
  2. 83 Comments

  3. by   Double-Helix
    Of course it's cheating. It's also unethical, irresponsible, and arrogant to think that one is so good that they don't need the amount of education that expert educators have decided is necessary to become competent.

    It's really the responsibility of the FNP program to verify that clinical hours are being completed. If this misrepresentation of hours is so widespread, clearly the program isn't fulfilling their obligation to validate the hours submitted. Since you're not the preceptor for this student, nor an FNP instructor, I don't see what you could do about this (other than report the student to the school, but the time to do that would have been when you first learned it was happening). I would just make sure that if you are asked to precept any student in the future, you make it clear that you will only be signing off on the hours they are present.
  4. by   astrn
    Thanks Double-Helix, The student says when they have more time in the summer they will complete 2 days but really don't think that will happen either. Why would you all of a sudden go from 1 to 2 if you have gotten away with it this far. Also I believe in her peds rotation she will be working with a RN who does the well child checks for the pediatrician. I didn't have all the time on my hands when I went back to school nor did thousands of others. It just really irks me that some universities allow this behavior. When I confront him regarding the hours he just blows me off and gets very defensive. Just ridiculous really...
  5. by   elkpark
    Just part of the general "watering down" of nursing education. When I was in school, I was directly supervised in my clinical practica by a faculty member of the school, in a facility with which the school had an ongoing relationship, and there was no question of not putting in the hours I was expected to (the nature of the clinical practica was such that students in my track ended up spending many more hours than the minimum required in order to follow my cases appropriately and responsibly, to our benefit). Now that so many (not all) schools are so cavalier about supervising students, students can basically do as much or as little as they want, and get away with it.

    As Double notes, of course it's cheating. Do you want to report him to the school and have to live with the consequences (of ratting out someone with whom you work)? You say you've been asked to precept him. Can you decline to the school, rather than just to him, and let the school know why you're unwilling to take him on as a preceptee?

    Situations like this make all of us look bad, and diminish the respectablility and credibility of advanced practice nurses over time. I already work with physicians who are sincerely surprised to learn, when it comes up in conversation, that my graduate degree isn't from some on-line diploma mill program, that I actually attended classes and clinical in a legitimate program and have a "real" degree -- they assume that all nursing graduate degrees are more or less a joke.
  6. by   astrn
    Elkpark, no I don't want to report to his school (although) I want to make a point! I went to a great school that really adhered to academic integrity and I felt it brought a higher standard to our program. For conversation sake, it is Chamberlain that he is attending. Maybe it really is a thing at Chamberlain, counting patients instead of hours. I know you need so many hours at all of the programs I have looked into, not counting patients. Might I add that the person is really peeved at me because I refused to do his homework on numerous occasions. He would blatantly walk into my office hand me his text books, articles sometimes and printed out homework assignments and ask me to fill out what I thought were the answers since he is just slammed and didn't have enough time to finish the night before. Just an all around bad student who has no time management. He would text me at night with huge messages giving me his case studies to see what I would do for workup, tx and differentials. Not that it matters but he is middle aged, no kids living at home and is married, everyone has things to do outside of school and work but this person just takes it too far. Thanks for your input!!
    Last edit by astrn on Mar 28
  7. by   Lev <3
    I think his actions are bordering on harassment.
  8. by   elkpark
    Quote from astrn
    Might I add that the person is really peeved at me because I refused to do his homework on numerous occasions. He would blatantly walk into my office hand me his text books, articles sometimes and printed out homework assignments and ask me to fill out what I thought were the answers since he is just slammed and didn't have enough time to finish the night before. Just an all around bad student who has no time management. He would text me at night with huge messages giving me his case studies to see what I would do for workup, tx and differentials.
    Good lord!! I would be turning this guy in to somebody, whether it's the school or complaining to your boss about his behavior at work.
  9. by   caliotter3
    I would contact the school and decline further involvement "for professional reasons". The school is not likely to seek details.
  10. by   DeLanaHarvickWannabe
    I know someone who received disciplinary action from the BON for doing this.
  11. by   astrn
    Ha ha, just for giggles: Here is one of the emails from the beginning of his program from him to me. I have a bunch more too!:

    "Good morning.

    I did not get my assignment completed last night. It took me forever to read-then reread the differences. If you have time to look at this or add/subtract to it that would be awesome and save me time tonight. Let me know what you think. I found a like that provides each state requirements on my home computer but unfortunately did not send to my work computer.

    Thank you"

    Thank you for everyone's feedback. I wouldn't even know who to contact at the school. Can't complain to boss, doesn't have anything to do with it and don't want to bring anyone else into situation. Really wanted clarification on what everyone else would do or if they have ever encountered a similar situation. I don't want to get them kicked out of their program, want people to succeed but not like this I guess!
  12. by   Boomer MS, RN
    If I understand correctly, you are not his/her preceptor at this time. If not, I do not see that you can do anything, except to decline to do his/her homework. Asking a colleague to look over some work is fine, IMO. But saying he/she did not finish the assignment and ask you to finish it? No way. If you are or become the preceptor and have concerns, I think you need to contact his/her Faculty of Record.
  13. by   LadysSolo
    I, on the other hand, would WANT him thrown out of the program. Do you want him taking care of someone you care about? Do you really think he will be capable? I don't! If he's taking short-cuts now, he will take short-cuts in practice.
  14. by   TriciaJ
    Have you actually completed any of his homework for him? Does he keep asking you even though you refuse? I would certainly be reporting him to someone. He's undermining the integrity of your profession.

close