lying about clinical hours

Specialties NP

Published

I have an issue and maybe some of you can make light of it for me. I am a practicing FNP and have been asked to be a preceptor for someone whom I work with. He is in FNP school and thankfully I am not his preceptor at this time. When I ask how his hours are coming along he says just fine. He is in his 2nd clinical rotation and is working full time. All of the NP programs I know of require 16 hours of clinical hours per week. He takes one day off his full time job weekly to complete an 8 hour clinical rotation. He states he can see 16 patients a day and count each patient as 1 hour of clinical since it takes him 1 hour to work up the patient, which is complete BS. I know he cannot take off work to have a second day of clinical so he just reports the fake hours. So basically will have half of the clinical hours needed. He just finished his first rotation a few weeks ago and I thought he would have been caught but wasn't. He also says that other people in the program are doing the same thing, only 1 day a week and counting it as 2.

I and everyone I know that has completed a NP program has worked their butt off to complete their program and it just really irritates me that others just mend the program to their liking. Has anyone else experienced this?? It is really cheating in my opinion and I feel it takes integrity away from the profession and people are taking short cuts.

Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.

Have you actually completed any of his homework for him? Does he keep asking you even though you refuse? I would certainly be reporting him to someone. He's undermining the integrity of your profession.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in labor & delivery.

This is crazy. I am beginning my final rotation in my FNP program. I get nervous if my preceptor leaves earlier than scheduled because I have to figure out how to make up that time. Yet this person could care less if he is completing the required amount. Unbelievable. I have to log all my patient encounters into a system, but the only thing that counts is my total hours with patients--not the amount of patients I see. My program requires site visits where they observe us with patients and talk to our preceptors. I find it sad that his preceptors are passing him if they are doing site visits. If he cannot finish/understand his homework, how is he passing exams? Hopefully, it catches up to him before graduation.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Ha ha, just for giggles: Here is one of the emails from the beginning of his program from him to me. I have a bunch more too!:

"Good morning.

I did not get my assignment completed last night. It took me forever to read-then reread the differences. If you have time to look at this or add/subtract to it that would be awesome and save me time tonight. Let me know what you think. I found a like that provides each state requirements on my home computer but unfortunately did not send to my work computer.

Thank you"

Thank you for everyone's feedback. I wouldn't even know who to contact at the school. Can't complain to boss, doesn't have anything to do with it and don't want to bring anyone else into situation. Really wanted clarification on what everyone else would do or if they have ever encountered a similar situation. I don't want to get them kicked out of their program, want people to succeed but not like this I guess!

For some reason, this is a little too "HIPAA-ish" for me. :bookworm:

So OP what truly is your goal regarding this matter?

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I don't understand how his school allows him to log 16 hour days, unless he logs them as 2 days. I'm in an FNP program now, and they don't let us do more than 10 hr. days without permission. They really want us to stick to 8 hr. days. We also have site visits where they (faculty) come and observe us, as well as speak to our preceptors. I would think that if his teachers see 16 hour days logged, it would raise a red flag. Additionally, if they did site visits, they would quickly realize that it is not feasible. Our preceptors also sign off on our hours.

His behavior ends up affecting us all, because it brings into question the integrity and rigor of our programs. I work so hard to get all my hours in, with 2 little ones @ home, so it's upsetting to read this.

I would call his nursing program and speak with someone in the FNP faculty and just let them know about the 16 hour days logged, and maybe even mention that if you were to precept a student there, you do not expect them to ask you to do their assignments for them. Someone needs to do something for the greater good, and that someone may have to be you. Tag you're it...You can't unknow this information. Maybe you could talk to them anonymously, although I don't know how much weight that will carry. Maybe tell them also about the fact that he states that they all do it this way, and that you feel that it affects the integrity of your profession...And maybe ask that they don't mention your name. It's not always about being a tattletale, IMO, sometimes someone needs to right a wrong, and he is trying to involve you in his messy ways. I know, it must be tough that he is a co-worker. All the best.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I would decline to precept him for the reasons stated. Then stay out of his business. Do you think he's the first person to try to take the easy way to a professional career? How long do you think he would last in a job with an attitude like that? If he doesn't turn around, he can't last anywhere. The goals for the FNP program is 1 patient per every hour you log and preferrably 2. It doesn't make any sense to just log hours. It has to be patients and hours. A person who sees 20 patients per day is getting more experience than the one who stays 8 hours a day and sees 2. The lesson to be learned is that integrity is important in every career and how you get there says a lot about your character. Many schools require student to have preceptor sign hours log before they leave clinical site each day. Faculty usually calls preceptor to check on student. Many a student fudging on hours log have been caught and there are rammifications.

Also, to those who think brick and mortar schools are always superior to on-line, think again. Many top B&M schools choose to make their NP programs on-line and hybrid. I hear from physicians about top school graduates who could not cut the mustard. There is a lot that goes into becoming a good practitioner, and not all of it has to do with the method of training. U.S. medical schools are based in the classroom, but are all doctors equal? The answer is NO. And how many nurses and pre-med students cheated in undergraduate schools? LOTS. But they are practicing. Unfortunately, some people's conscience takes a lot longer to develop and some were taught bad habits by their own parents.

The OP should let the co-worker know that what he's doing is dishonest and can get him dismissed from the school. It is a violation of the school's ethical behavior policy, which he should have signed. The worst thing to happen is to be dismissed for cheating. OP may even print out something from the school or a website so the student can read it. He may need a wake up call. Or if OP wants to be helpful, a creative:geek: completion of the homework would help the student learn this lesson: Substandard completion of one's own assignment is better than substandard completion by someone else ;)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in peds.

I would refuse to precept him then not worry about. He will not pass boards.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Either file a formal complaint and follow through or keep your mouth shut and decline all involvement with this person going forward. If you chose the second route please keep in mind that the issue will then become all about your refusal to cooperate. Pick one of the two, I don't see any other choices on the table. Involvement with this situation in any form could ruin you professionally.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Thank you for everyone's feedback. I have confronted this person and tried to politely inquire about how the school wants them to account for the hours and he states this is what he and everyone else he knows in the program is doing. He has said they are only allowed to log no more than 10 patients in 1 day so he has to be putting it in 2 days. One of the other students in the program who is also working full time does clinical in 2 half days/week. I am not sure how they are logging in their e-logs, they could be putting 2 days down, who knows. I am not in fact his preceptor but have been approved to be, we don't see kids under the age of 3 so he could not use me.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I'm not in FNP school but I would absolutely be kicked out of my BSN program if I asked someone to do my work for me. Document this behavior and refuse to precept him if asked. I would let his preceptor know that he has asked you to do his homework. Why on earth would he ask you to do his homework, wouldn't he know that's an honor violation?? Sorry, this is just about the weirdest situation I've read about in awhile.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Cardicac Neuro Telemetry.

I would have been kicked out of my BSN program if I every pulled that crap. I can bet a paycheck this isn't acceptable in an FNP program. It sounds like he doesn't want to put forth the effort in being a competent clinician. You know who suffers from that if he passes his boards and get a job as an FNP? The unknowing patient who has an appointment with him. This is one of the reasons I will look up an NP before scheduling an appointment with one. I'm sorry (not sorry) to anyone who takes offense from this but I don't want an NP trained at a for profit diploma mill treating me or my two and a half year old son.

His actions speak volumes of the integrity of his school, imho. NP programs need to rigorous, allow only the highest caliber of students, and for the LOVE OF GOD only take applicants who have at least a couple years of experience as a BEDSIDE RN. I personally think a minimum of 5-10 years makes for a great NP but that's just my 2 cents.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

If he's using the old "everybody's doing it" excuse, I'd have to be nosy and call the school and ask them if that's true. If that's what they're doing, isn't there some FNP board you could report the entire school to? I would think the state BON would also be interested if they're cutting corners, since I suppose they have to credential the school. This guy is going to be one of those providers that cause nurses to roll their eyes when they find out they're the ones on call. That is, if he ever manages to pass his boards.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Do his homework but give the wrong answers.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment