Why so closed minded? WHY?

mattsmom81 · Jul 28, 2002

Now I'm a woman, and I do prefer a female doctor to a male...for many personal reasons of my own...modesty and comfort level being the main ones. I should not have to apologize for this.

If I was totally dependant and alert in the ICU with nurses needed to do my very personal cares, I would prefer a female. I believe most women would. Many men prefer a male do catheterizations or peri care,or groin preps... which I can understand too. I guess I don't understand why some nurses have such a control issue with this. Are we not there for our patients' comfort??

This is not stereotypical at all on my part at all...I love my coworkers who happen to be male. And we see eye to eye on this issue.... I'm not a nurse to stress my patient out, or make them uncomfortable with their care just to be PC...nor lecture them ie 'he's a nurse just like me' to get them to comply with our idea of PC. I just don't see this as the nurses' role in this kind of issue...

ANYTIME a female or male patient requests a same sex nurse, I and my male coworkers do so without a second thought...unless staffing prohibits, and even then we 'switch off' personal care or accomodate best we can for the patient's sake. I don't understand why would we want to do anything else. .JMHO. :confused:

santhony44, MSN, RN, NP · Jul 28, 2002

I mentioned that I now prefer a female PCP to do my "annual" exams, and that I don't want them done by a male I work with. In the practice I am now, I do most of the GYN and have done those exams for several years. I tell patients that the next time I see them, I see their face and not their private parts. Some women who are friends with me, or who work with me (or both) prefer me to do their exams as they feel comfortable with me. Others don't want me to do those, because the idea of then seeing me every day is too wierd for them.

I've done prostate exams and genital exams on males of varying ages. If possible, I try to give them the choice of having a male do those. If not, I try to make them as comfortable as possible, just as I do with female patients (many of whom would much prefer to have *nobody* do the exam).

I don't take anyone's preferences personally. I know I'm good at my job, regardless. In primary care, they can either put up with me, or go elsewhere. In the hospital, that's usually not possible.

If I'm sick enough, or hurting badly enough, to be in the hospital,I don't care *who* takes care of me, as long as he or she is competent.

It's not just nurses who meet with discrimination. I work in a practice with two male docs and a female doc. All three happen to be from the Phillipines. I know that some patients don't want to see a "foreign" doctor (I'm not sure if it's a race/color issue, or that they think doctors educated elsewhere don't have as good an education). In many rural areas, though, patients don't have a lot of choice- American-born doctors want to be in the metropolitan areas, and won't go to the "boonies."

If I sense that someone has doubts or reservations about one of the doctors, I try to assure them that the docs are perfectly competent. Usually if I say "I bring my children here" or "my husband has seen Dr. So-and-so" then that makes the point.

mark_LD_RN · Jul 29, 2002

matts mom you are sadly mistaken! My patient love me and request me very few have any problem with it. It is mostly nurses that have the problem with it,Go figure that! I agree it is a patients right to choose and would not be insulted if one requested a female to care for her. you are also mistaken about males prefering males to cath them and prep them, most have no preference i for one don't. they only patients ever to refuse my care were males, due to the misconception that all male nurses are gay!

This is not a control issue at all! you are free to choose, i could care less who you choose i only get annoyed at female nurse that want to discriminate against males passed on gender and misinformed sterotyping. I provide excellent care for my patients and it shows by how much the request me and all the letters i recieve in support from them. I am the most requested nurse, even the nurses i work with tell my patients how much they will like me, and that all my patients just adore me.

all i ask is for my coworkers (nurses) to have an open mind and allow me to practice and serve my patients even if it would not be their coice. if my patient is fine with it that is all that matters. I used to work with a nurse that would go warn my patients that i was male and that they did not have to have me and put up with it. i found out about it when 2 of my patients told me how unprofessional they thought that was.and by the way even under those conditions patients still requested me.

matts mom you need to wake up, and realize not ever one shares your view and you should not be so controlling and try to force your views on others!

live4today, RN · Jul 29, 2002

Dayray......hang in there! ((((hugs)))

Mattsmom.......I personally prefer having foreign doctors care for me over American doctors. Most of the doctors I have had have

either been East Indian men, or Filipino women. Yes...I have had caucasian and black doctors from time to time, but trust my healthcare with a foreign doctor more. IMO....I think of them as being smarter doctors who have much better bedside manners than other doctors I've encountered as a patient.....BUT....that is JUST ME. :)

I have also never had a male patient tell me that he preferred a male insert his foley catheter or bathe him. I have never had a problem like that in all my years of actively working as a nurse, and as a former traveling nurse, my nursey hands have cared for a lot of male bodies from all walks of life. :)

Dayray, RN · Jul 29, 2002

I hope that I didn't give the impression that I believe patients should be forced into having a male as their nurse. I have never had a request by a patient for a female nurse. If a patient ever requests a female nurse I will find them one.

My post was aimed at Nurses not patients. Just like Mark, I have had nurses warn my patients that I was male. The only people who have ever criticized or questioned my choice to work in OB/GYN are other nurses. This is not even a patient issue it is a nursing issue.

I have actually asked my patients at discharge what they thought of male OB nurses. All of them said that when they first saw me they thought I was a doctor. When I told them I was a nurse it surprised them but once they knew I was a nurse they assumed there were lots of male OB nurses and didn't give it much thought.

When I said, "Excepting discrimination based on gender is not patient advocacy" I didn't mean that we should refuse to give patients a female nurse if they ask for one. Before I came to work in OB I had several patients refuse my care because I am Hispanic. I didn't say a word to them I traded with another nurse and went on with my day.

I don't believe we should make patients keep a nurse they are uncomfortable with. I do however believe that refusing the care of a nurse because of race, religion or GENDER is wrong. Of course we should do our best to accommodate the patients request no matter what their reasons but accepting this as simple preference is wrong, it is discrimination.

Not that long ago, women were not allowed to vote. They were not allowed to wear pants. They were not allowed to be alone with a male for any length of time. At one time it was legal for a man to beat his wife as long as it wasn't more then 3 times a week and it did not happen in a public place. These rules were accepted by society because of stereotypical beliefs about women. It was generally accepted that women were not very smart and that they were inferior to men. We all know these beliefs were wrong. But if you lived in that time you would have excepted these Ideas as fact because that would have been what your parents and everyone else taught you.

The same is true today of the way we see men. We are thought that men are mainly motivated by sex. That men oppress or abuse women, that they are selfish. Men are not supposed to be caring they are supposed to be tough and strong. How many times have you heard "all men are pigs"?

It's the same damn thing!

These stereotypes are the reasons you feel more comfortable with a female nurse.

Please do not mistake my passion for anger. I don't blame people for feeling the way they do. They can only believe what they have been taught.

LasVegasRN · Jul 29, 2002

Excellent post, DayRay.

Dayray, RN · Jul 29, 2002

LasVegasRN

Thanks =)

mark_LD_RN · Jul 29, 2002

very thoughtful post ray:).

it is a shame this is even a topic, nurses can really surprise you, the manager of L&D i went to in southern california told me " no males will work here not now not ever!" what a shame, they lost out. I was flown to austin texas as a replacement assignment and they loved me, i still get calls wanting me back there, I wish all nurses would be more open minded and let males practice freely as they are. I have no problem with patients refuseing my care,but i have a real problem with nurses refusing to let me even have a chance to practice in my chosen area of practice. i knew from day one that this is where i belong.

i also like to thank all the nurses out there who have been supportive of me and of the other male nurses out there. lets all work together and be professionals.

mario_ragucci · Jul 29, 2002

Wow Mark, that is so cool of you to say. this is really an interesting thread. You know, I have never told anyone this, but some patients I see still think I'm their doctor, I guess because I am a white male middle thirties. I have to bark right up front about being the nurses asst. , out of respect for them, and I am extremely careful to be super humble as a c n a. Personally, i think a majority of the wanna be doctors all walk around so stiff, and lots of them wear sissy shoes, man or woman. Hey - I don't walk stiff and I wear bright yellow Nike Roc-shox, cross trainers, and pts wanna believe I am their doctor.

Man or woman, it is really in the eyes and in the touch, and the feeling you get when someone speaks to you and you experience their attention, and vice versa. (look into their eyes) I feel sorry for the folks who can't maintain understanding with a person.

mattsmom81 · Jul 29, 2002

Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
matts mom you are sadly mistaken! My patient love me and request me very few have any problem with it. It is mostly nurses that have the problem with it,Go figure that!

Deb's response: Mark, most professionals will consider their patients' comfort first, in my experienced. Now maybe you work with a few nurses who don't agree with males in LD. But you can't generalize like this and be logical.

Mark writes: Youe also mistaken about males prefering males to cath them and prep them, most have no preference i for one don't.

Again, Mark, I have been a nurse for 25 years and I cannot be 'mistaken' about my experiences over the years. It's not 'law', just my experience talking. So please don't tell me I'm 'mistaken".

Mark writes: This is not a control issue at all! you are free to choose, i could care less who you choose i only get annoyed at female nurse that want to discriminate against males passed on gender and misinformed sterotyping.

Mark, I will be free to make comfort choices and so will my patients. This is not about you or how great a nurse you think you are. Period. A male patient who asks for a male to cath him, or a female asking for a female to do her peri care is not acting out of discrimination, just their comfort levels, and as a caring nurse I can understand that. Get a grip, please. One nurse who asks her female patients if they prefer a woman does not make all of us discriminators.

Mark writes:

matts mom you need to wake up, and realize not ever one shares your view and you should not be so controlling and try to force your views on others!

Hmm. Well, Mark, I'm offering my OPINION (as you did) but I am not trying to control or force my views. We are all free to agree or disagree with one anothers posts, after all. I feel you have your priorities a bit skewed, Mark, but I don't think you want to hear that.

I'm a bit dissapointed in some of the responses on this thread... I hope we all examine our motives, our insecurities and narcicism.

After 25 years as a bedside nurse, I know what my motives are and they are patient focused....I don't go to work with a political agenda, insecurities, or a need to 'show those discriminating patients/nurses' a few things, nor be everybody's 'favorite nurse'. Just a thought, and totally my opinion...(not forcing, you understand)... :rolleyes:

G'Day all. :roll

Dayray, RN · Jul 30, 2002

Mattsmom

I am sure you have forgotten more then I currently know about nursing 25 years is a long time. Unfortunately you have lost the ability to admit when you are wrong or to see the forest for the trees. One or the other, either you totally miss the point of this discussion or refuse to admit when you are wrong.

The reason mark mentions that his patient's love him is not to brag about how good a nurse he is (although I'm sure he is a great nurse) he writes about this to show that his sex is not an issue with patients but only with nurses like you.

He isn't generalizing or saying all nurses persecute male nurses he was talking about specific incidents and I think really talking about you and your attitude.

I have never seen a post from mark that would suggest he would put his own agenda before that of the patients. He has always stated that he wouldn't be offended if a patient preferred a female and that he wouldn't give them a hard time about it. he also says this has never happened to him.

Perhaps male patients have asked that you bring in a male to perform certain procedures for them. Although I have never encountered this I'm sure some patients would ask for a same sex nurse. My best guess as to why this seems to happen to you so often is that they are looking for an excuse to get away from you (you don't seem like a very happy person).

alwaysthere · Jul 30, 2002

Ok people this is getting a bit to personal. WE are not here to tear down one another. We take enough abuse at work and we do not need to use our words and intellects to fight amongst one another! Keep it cool ppl :) :kiss:

Mattsmom while I do not agree with your veiws altogether I do agree that the patient comes first even if their predjudice is wrong they still come first. As i mentioned in the first post ...do to staffing he was not able to switch assigments but the three of us did come up with a compromise.

As for me when i am a pt. I dont care what race sex religion or creed the person who is caring for me belongs to. Only that they are Professionals.